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00:51 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> really late but the reason I dislike doorstopper and other luck based achievements is because there isn’t any skill or really even strategy for it
00:51 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> the +7 elven thing is really annoying but it at least requires thought and planning to pull off
00:58 <tinklebear> deciding when to minimise luck and find a door <-- planning
00:58 <tinklebear> but of course, it is clearly a matter of taste :D
01:03 <Furey> in my eyes, the hard part is when everyone decides they want to go for certain achievements, and everyone in the clan neglects certain other achievements
01:03 <Furey> i'm guilty of that too
01:06 * tinklebear tries to find an achievement on the list that looks like it has such mass appeal
01:07 <tinklebear> Minesflayer, maybe?
01:08 * tinklebear can't find the pulse of the zeitgeist to save his life
01:09 <Furey> Omelet of Yendor.
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01:10 <tinklebear> lol. really?
01:10 <Furey> Not going to convince you, because you're just going to apply your subjective disdain.
01:11 <tinklebear> people are so weird!
01:11 <Furey> But the record shows 15 players in 7 different clans achieved it. I'm going to bet only 1-2 of those are independents, and 6-7 are clan dupes.
01:12 <Furey> Hulk smash (kill a monster with a heavy iron ball): 25 players, 13 clans.
01:12 <tinklebear> so, sort of a buddy system
01:13 <tinklebear> a pair of buddies sparring for the intramural prize
01:13 <Furey> Could be.
01:14 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> lol, you can minimize luck and go for doorstopper that way but it’s just unnecessary risk compared to just spamming a door on level 1
01:14 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> lol, you can minimize luck and go for doorstopper that way but it’s unnecessary risk compared to just spamming a door on level 1
01:15 <Furey> If you don't want to do doorstopper, and someone else in your clan does it, and you do something else that's NOT doorstopper ... then your clan benefits.
01:15 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> either way, it’s the absolute bare minimum of strategy. not particularly impressive. when someone pulls off the full elven, I am impressed. when someone does doorstopper, I am sorry for their loss
01:15 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> Furey: I am unfortunately possessed by a maddening urge to maximize achievements in every game :P
01:16 <Furey> I know the feeling.
01:16 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> you have the record for most in a game, right? how many was that
01:17 <Furey> In 2022 it was a tie, 267 ach's, furey and spazm
01:20 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> fairly miraculous to tie that
01:20 <Furey> we are both on edge :)
01:21 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> tnnt isn’t my strong suit. I only got ~150 achievements last year total
01:21 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> there’s too many for me to keep track of lol
01:21 <Furey> there's many suits to be strong in, what would you like to be top player in?
01:22 <tinklebear> doorstopping, clearly
01:23 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> to me tnnt is all about them achievements
01:23 <tinklebear> lol
01:23 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> makes it very fun in a different way than junethack
01:23 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I may very well be the top doorstopper, lol. I go for it at the start of every game, and I die a lot so I play a lot of games
01:24 <Furey> heh
01:24 <tinklebear> don't you run into nutrition problems?
01:25 <tinklebear> blowing turns in the early game like that, I mean?
01:25 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> ever since I played drow convict in evilhack I have never needed anything other than prayer and corpses to avoid starving early
01:26 <tinklebear> oh, wait. I forgot about your eating the first-level trap corpses lifehack
01:26 <tinklebear> :D
01:26 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> heheheh
01:28 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> my strategy for NetHack is to play over and over and over until the knowledge of the mechanics is just hammered into my muscle memory and reflexes lol
01:28 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I dunno most numbers and I rarely check unless I’m playing a difficult variant
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01:31 <Furey> mine is to crawl through dungeon, roll up all resources, then i can do anything i want with the 600 items in my stash.
01:32 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I am terrible at stashing
01:32 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I’ve developed a playstyle that uses everything as fast as possible so as to avoid having to do it :O
01:32 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> change that surprised emoticon to a silly one with your imagination
01:34 <Furey> so, more speedrun than snail run.
01:34 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I accidentally got the speed record for evilhack this way
01:35 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> it helped that the most acceptable way to play evilhack is very slowly and thoughtfully
01:36 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I’ve thought about speedrunning vanilla, but it’s far more optimized.
01:36 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> my fastest vanilla is like a little below 4 hours I believe
01:36 <K2> :)
01:41 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> I think tariru got the previous record on like his second evilhack game, which is absurd and terrifying
01:42 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> nevermind, it was his *fourth* evilhack game. totally reasonable
01:42 <K2> luxidream tried to speedrun evilhack once
01:42 <K2> he astral splatted
01:43 <K2> this was early(ish) days, purgatory/sanctum revamp didnt exist
01:43 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> yeah I heard about that
01:43 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> I’ve recommended it to him once or twice, but he seems to have no intention of returning :P
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01:45 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> a traumatizing experience no doubt
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01:47 <Demo> i was the first person to astral splat in evil
01:50 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> what happened
01:53 <Demo> i just went in underprepared
01:53 <Demo> didnt like it and wanted to rush getting it over with
01:54 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> ah. I’ve done that many times
01:54 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> well, not the disliking part
01:55 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> and actually, I usually come prepared and just die anyway
01:55 <Demo> if id got it first altar i would have been first asc
01:56 <Demo> idk. i didnt even want to play. it was weird
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01:58 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> dunno much about early evil. heard it was rough, and not just around the edges
01:59 <Demo> there was no vibe square in my game
01:59 <Demo> instead just a downstairs
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02:00 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> I think that was possible in vanilla too until recently but you had to do something weird to make it happen
02:01 <Demo> was that a new 3.6/3.7 bug?
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02:02 <Demo> im guessing so. cant think of how that could happen in 343. if it could be forced somehow, it could be very OP for the TAS
02:04 <rld> <@Loggers_IX> yeah I think something broke that allowed you to fall to the sanctum through a shaft
02:04 <Demo> ah
02:04 <Demo> yeah for 343 TAS that would be so OP
02:26 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> and I'm p proud of having two of the five you missed ;P
02:27 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> oh right IRC probably didn't parse the reply correctly, thta was in response to surly dinos having 320/325
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02:48 <Furey> karafruit! yes, you got nudist conduct ascensions, one of the most difficult challenges ever
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03:15 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> well, one, not multiple. 😛
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03:32 <Furey> hiya cathartes
03:32 <Furey> another player that can do things i can't do :)
03:33 <cathartes> hi Furey
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04:37 <Furey> ... luckstone alert!
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06:52 <theWeaver> huhu <3
06:53 <theWeaver> how's everybody doin today
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07:57 <joes> morning
08:00 <Umbire> 'lo
08:22 <rld> <@hackemslashem> This is the way
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13:13 <Furey> $time
13:13 <Croesus> Furey: 2024-10-16 13:13:32 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 15d 10:46:27
13:18 <Furey> A gush of water hits your left arm!  It explodes!
13:20 <tinklebear> Furey is C3PO but made of Rubidium, confirmed
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15:53 <cbus> are people beta testing or whats up? :)
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15:55 <tinklebear> I sunk some hours into playing yesterday. if you like to call that beta testing, then sure :D
15:56 <tinklebear> and hello, cbus
15:57 <cbus> yo, sup tinklebear :)
15:58 <tinklebear> happy that tnnt coming up, sorry to see the weather getting wetter and colder
15:58 <tinklebear> how have you been, cbus
15:58 <cbus> so-so
15:58 <cbus> been a stressful time lately
15:58 <cbus> how about you?
15:58 <cbus> trying to grow a dragon
15:58 <cbus> tame baby silver dragon called Purrminator
15:58 <cbus> :D
15:59 <tinklebear> hah, cool
16:01 <tinklebear> I've been trying to maintain composure through rough life stuff atm too. nethack (in moderation) seems to help, if I can find the time
16:01 <cbus> yeah, I have started with some flight simming too
16:01 <tinklebear> oh, that sounds cool
16:06 <Furey> hi cbus, and tinklebear
16:07 <tinklebear> speaking of beta testing, hello Furey
16:08 <Furey> tryna get the first asc of beta, but you guys could start a brand new game right now and beat me, i'm sure
16:08 * tinklebear is trying, but doubtful
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19:14 <Furey> $time
19:14 <Croesus> Furey: 2024-10-16 19:14:16 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 15d 04:45:43
19:15 <Furey> Hi Arseniy, welcome to the pre-game party
19:22 <cbus> the place where all the cool ppl hang? :D
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20:20 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> Furey's counting down the ~~days~~ hours
20:25 <rld> <@arthurdayne18> I'm specifically avoiding starting to play any of the games I've recently bought until december 1st. Dont want any distractions from playing tnnt this year. Havnt played in the tournament since 2019
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20:39 <Furey> Gonna stock up on TNNT food. Huge chunk of meat, bananas, apples, ...
20:39 <K2> @arthurdayne18 good plan
20:46 <corwin> Bones of (former) enemies..
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21:10 <tinklebear> 3.6.7 does NOT grant admittance tothe quest at XP level 10 if you kill quest leader, correct?
21:11 <aosdict> right, and you can still be permanently expelled and make the game unwinnable
21:11 <Furey> ... correct
21:11 <tinklebear> okay
21:11 <tinklebear> good to know
21:12 <tinklebear> thank you both
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21:56 <tinklebear> ah, the "missing command" I thought was called #vanquished yesterday is just called #species
21:57 <tinklebear> and it is not, in fact, missing
22:14 <ais523> I also thought it was called #vanquished
22:14 <ais523> maybe some variant uses that name?
22:17 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> 3.7 at the very least uses #vanquished
22:18 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> also started a nudist monk, immediately find a magic lamp in a store. guess who's getting magic resistance as soon as she can handle artifact blast...
22:18 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> ohno dog is dead :<
22:18 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> I will avenge you!
22:22 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> ...never mind, I have No Idea how they died 😦
22:27 <tjw> Any particular reason for "Wafer-Thin Mint" to be inserted in the middle of the achievement list?
22:28 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> oh cool, an armor shop, just what I needed 😄
22:29 <tinklebear> is that a question about Wafer-Thin's order in the list, or is it a question about its mere presence on the list ?
22:29 <tinklebear> (I don't know the answer either way)
22:30 <tjw> Wondering why it's in the middle and not at the end, but looking at the source comments it makes more sense
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23:01 <ais523> I feel like there's some approximate ordering of the achievements list
23:01 <ais523> although no doubt if you gave it to someone who was good at sorting and classifying things, they could come up with a hyper-logical ordering and explain why it's the only ordering for the list that makes sense
23:01 <ais523> or, hmm, I guess there's some doubt
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23:25 <tjw> It's just that all the achievement numbers after 147 have different meanings between 2023 and 2024.