00:01 <K2> beta is active
00:02 -!- aosdict has joined #tnnt
00:02 -!- mode/#tnnt [+o aosdict] by ChanServ
00:10 <K2> !who
00:11 <K2> huh
00:11 <K2> oh
00:11 <K2> $who
00:11 <Croesus> K2: [US] k2 | [EU] No current players | [AU] No current players
00:11 <Demo> $help
00:11 <Croesus> Demo: https://github.com/tnnt-devteam/tnntbot/blob/master/botuse.txt
00:11 <Demo> $clanscore teamsplit
00:11 <Croesus> Demo: Can't find clan teamsplit
00:15 <Demo> $clantag losers ito
00:16 <Demo> $streak DemoBot
00:16 <Croesus> Demo: No streaks for DemoBot.
00:16 <Demo> $lastgame DemoBot
00:16 <Croesus> Demo: No last game for DemoBot.
00:16 <Demo> hmm i don't know about november
00:55 <botifico> [tnnt] copperwater pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/tnnt-devteam/tnnt/compare/b27e79eb9fc1...132e80772996
00:55 <botifico> [tnnt] copperwater 132e807 - Fix: unusable monster color in devteam member tile
01:17 -!- Furey has joined #tnnt
01:19 <botifico> [tnnt] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/tnnt-devteam/tnnt/compare/132e80772996...a7eaecb08ecd
01:19 <botifico> [tnnt] k21971 a7eaecb - Remove mac/windows builds from github workflow.
02:06 <botifico> [tnnt] copperwater pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±1] https://github.com/tnnt-devteam/tnnt/compare/a7eaecb08ecd...2787b616b8a9
02:06 <botifico> [tnnt] copperwater 2787b61 - Fix: oclass was not read properly from swapchest file
02:51 <Furey> The sleep ray bounces!  The sleep ray bounces!  The sleep ray bounces!  The sleep ray bounces!  Upernavik gets angry!
02:51 <Furey> Achievement unlocked: "Three-Rail Shot".  The sleep ray hits Upernavik.
02:52 <Furey> ahaha i even got away with it
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04:41 <Loggers_VIII> doorstopper is the dumbest achievement of all time
04:46 <cathartes> I guess startscumming for a weak character until you get it might be the easiest way to do it, if you are trying for that one specifically.
04:47 <Loggers_VIII> yeah it's not that hard to get it's just irritating and lame
04:48 <Loggers_VIII> though it's not as bad as some of the really luck based achievements, because anyone patient enough can technically do it
04:49 <Loggers_VIII> I dislike the ones like chocoban, last chance outpost and amon hen a lot. I think completing every achievement in a single game should be doable purely off skill
04:50 <Umbire> bleah I keep sleepin too hard
04:50 <Umbire> I miss anything important?
04:50 <Loggers_VIII> tnnt beta opened
04:51 <Loggers_VIII> as such I've been given something to whine about (bad achievements) which should content me for a bit
04:52 <Loggers_VIII> dnh pushed undead hunter i think
04:55 <Umbire> yeah that one I heard about
04:56 <Loggers_VIII> ya thassaboutit ey
04:57 <Loggers_VIII> the nethack community needs more excitement
04:58 <Loggers_VIII> hm, actually, this is a 'careful what you wish for' type postulate
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05:06 <Umbire> I wasn't looking for excitement, just a catch up because I fell asleep around 3
05:45 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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07:49 -!- Umbire is now known as PhantomLumina
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11:22 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> hmm time for a "nethack hot take" generator bot?
11:23 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> that would cause excitement
11:23 <PhantomLumina> 'lo kara
11:23 -!- joes has joined #tnnt
11:23 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> hello
11:24 <PhantomLumina> ey joes
11:24 <rld> <@karafruit (she/her)> I am en route to work (via train) and not playing nethack. this makes me sad. 😦
11:45 <PhantomLumina> o no
11:45 <joes> ey PhantomLumina 
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14:56 <tinklebear> !help
14:56 <tinklebear> !halp
14:56 <tinklebear> @help
14:56 <joes> $help
14:56 <Croesus> joes: https://github.com/tnnt-devteam/tnntbot/blob/master/botuse.txt
14:56 <tinklebear> ty, joes!
14:56 <K2> \o/
14:56 <K2> i forget too sometimes
14:56 <K2> like yesterday
14:57 <joes> which channels are the other bots in :P
14:57 <K2> #hardfought and #evilhack
14:57 <K2> they use !
14:58 <Umbire> ab tinklebear 
14:58 <tinklebear> hallo, Umbire
14:59 <tinklebear> and good morning, K2
14:59 <K2> hi
15:00 <Umbire> ab K2
15:00 <K2> hi
15:01 <tinklebear> is it wrong to greet with "good morning" when the morning is damp and you spilled water all over a toolbox?
15:05 <K2> no, but a more appropriate greeting under those cirmcumstances might be 'eh'
15:05 <aosdict> o canada
15:08 <tinklebear> true patriot love, in all thy sons command
15:12 <aosdict> I think you accidentally a line
15:15 <tinklebear> s/accidentally/ignorantly
15:29 <Umbire> Anything need wiki documentation at the moment? If not, I'm gonna take a break and AFK
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15:31 -!- Umbire is now known as Guest3249
15:31 -!- Guest3249 has quit [Killed (molybdenum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
15:31 -!- PhantomLumina is now known as Umbire
15:32 <rld> <@Umbyre (he/him)> really inopportune comedic timing, that
15:36 <tinklebear> $who
15:36 <Croesus> tinklebear: [EU] No current players | [US] tinklebear | [AU] No current players
15:36 <tinklebear> $time
15:36 <Croesus> tinklebear: 2024-10-15 15:36:48 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 16d 08:23:12
15:37 <tinklebear> $lastgame K2
15:37 <Croesus> tinklebear: [US] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/k2/tnnt/dumplog/1729006555.tnnt.html
15:37 <tinklebear> $lastasc tinklebear
15:37 <Croesus> tinklebear: No last ascension for tinklebear.
15:38 <tinklebear> $score Umbire
15:38 <Croesus> tinklebear: Can't find player Umbire on the scoreboard.
15:38 <K2> if you logged in yesterday, do it again today
15:38 <tinklebear> $score K2
15:38 <Croesus> tinklebear: Can't find player K2 on the scoreboard.
15:38 <K2> $score k2
15:38 <Croesus> K2: Can't find player k2 on the scoreboard.
15:38 <tinklebear> $score tinklebear
15:38 <Croesus> tinklebear: Can't find player tinklebear on the scoreboard.
15:38 <K2> yeah there's a lot of functions with the bot that dont work anymore
15:38 <K2> happened when the backend was upgraded
15:38 <K2> we've never updated the bot :)
15:39 <tinklebear> cool
15:39 <aosdict> what did $score even do
15:40 <aosdict> like there hasn't been a unified tournament score for as long as there's been tnnt
15:43 <K2> it showed your score
15:43 <K2> back when we actually had scores
15:44 <tinklebear> what's the score, daddy-o
15:45 <K2> heh
15:45 <K2> errand time, bbl
15:45 <aosdict> actually I may be wrong - did we have a tournament score in early tnnt with the old backend?
15:45 <aosdict> and then discard it when moving to the python backend
15:45 <aosdict> or am I thinking of devnull tribute only
15:47 <tinklebear> https://hardfought.org/tnnt/archives/2020/
15:47 <tinklebear> "List of Top 10 Players"
15:47 <tinklebear> "#    player              clan           games wins score ach"
15:48 <tinklebear> "1  Luxidream   Order of the Cockatrice  501   64   6136  180"
15:48 <tinklebear> ...etc
15:49 <tinklebear> amateurhour was number 4, with 1443 points
15:49 * tinklebear misses amateurhour
16:14 <tinklebear> the #vanquished seems to have gone away
16:14 <tinklebear> * #vanquished command
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16:15 <Loggers_VIII> oh my god FUCK DOORSTOPPER FUCK DOORSTOPPER FUCK DOORSTOPPER
16:16 <Loggers_VIII> thank you for coming to my ted talk
16:16 <tinklebear> why you curse the chilton manual, Loggers_VIII?
16:16 <Loggers_VIII> lol
16:17 <Loggers_VIII> every time i get to 5 or 7 times in a row i get my hopes up just for them to be dashed on the rocks of sorrow
16:18 <Loggers_VIII> why is this an achievement???
16:21 <Loggers_VIII> yippee I got it!!! only took 400 turns of trying as a 10 strength tourist
16:22 <Loggers_VIII> on the next level i got oneshot by a hobbit with a wand of lightning
16:26 <tinklebear> the only rule I can discern from the list of achievements is
16:26 <tinklebear> that it is "a list of things that can happen in nethack"
16:29 <tinklebear> maybe "memorable types of things"
16:31 <tinklebear> "world-building events"
16:37 <Loggers_VIII> in the case of doorstopper, "sadistically boring events"
16:41 <tinklebear> statistics with a stuffy nose == sadistics
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17:11 <tinklebear> "cruel and unusual event" <-- its occurence is an achievement (just not necessarily for the player)
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21:09 <Furey> $time
21:09 <Croesus> Furey: 2024-10-15 21:09:37 UTC. 2024 Tournament begins in 16d 02:50:23
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21:40 <joes> $pom
21:53 <tinklebear> $who
21:53 <Croesus> tinklebear: [EU] No current players | [US] Furey | [AU] No current players
21:54 <Furey> hey tinklebear, how's it going?
21:55 <tinklebear> chilly, wet, sort of gloomy here
21:55 <tinklebear> how are you, Furey?
21:55 <Furey> checking out the new achievements.
21:56 <tinklebear> I saw a three wall-bounce thing. that looks new
21:56 <Furey> it is, it's fun to set that up
21:56 <aosdict> Boing!  Boing!  Boing!
21:56 <tinklebear> nice
21:56 <aosdict> (hmm maybe there should be a SEPARATE achievement to get three Boing!s at once because that is NOT the same thing)
21:57 <tinklebear> heh
21:57 <aosdict> we would call it "Cory Doctorow Eat Your Heart Out"
21:57 <Furey> i got a shopkeeper with a wand of sleep
21:58 <Furey> they were in front of the door
21:58 <Furey> fun fact: chopping down a door with a pick-axe does not make noise
21:59 <Furey> so i chopped the door down and snuck out, without waking them, and laughed my ass off
21:59 <tinklebear> hah
22:00 <tinklebear> clever
22:02 <K2> unplayable
22:02 <K2> delete game
22:02 <K2> :P
22:03 <Furey> don't worry, i got my yasd somewhere else
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22:34 <tjw> Would striking down a door wake a monster hit with /sleep, as opposed to merely "asleep"?
22:40 -!- Furey has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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22:59 <Furey> tjw: going to find out soon. headed for sokoban zoo with a stealthy barbarian and some pets.
23:00 <Furey> ow freaking shapechanger master lich
23:02 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> the three rail bounce achievement is good
23:02 <rld> <@Loggers_VIII> for an example of the worst achievement of all time look no further than doorstopper
23:05 <Furey> it's hilarious watching some hero opening and closing a door for 15 minutes
23:07 <aosdict> i dunno, it certainly made you stop at a door
23:08 <tinklebear> I mean, for any player I can think of, there's going to be at least a few achievements they just won't get
23:08 <tinklebear> if it is so painful, why not make doorstopper one of those?
23:09 <tinklebear> *one of those achievements you simply don't achieve
23:13 <tinklebear> there's a whole raft of achievements I'm like, "yeah, that looks like crap. not doing that one"
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23:15 <Furey> i think a good clan can get 100% of the achievements, but of course the players have to split them up
23:15 <tinklebear> sure
23:16 <aosdict> surly dinos got 320/325 last year
23:16 <tinklebear> I mean, like, for some people the +7 all-elven gear thing is attractive
23:16 <tinklebear> but hell will freeze over before I try for that one
23:16 <aosdict> the 5 they missed were the very hard luck-based one (wish from every source) and several partial conducts
23:17 <Bleeko> I think the key thing is that every achievement was done by at least one person
23:18 <aosdict> oh right
23:18 <aosdict> "i think a good clan can get 100% of the achievements" -- furey. hmm I wonder who is sitting on top of the leaderboard for most achievements last year ;)
23:18 <Bleeko> If you had any that were unachieved achievements, that would be something to adjust.
23:19 <aosdict> That's actually something I'm trying to implement for this year - a page with a basic breakdown of how many players got each achievement
23:19 <Furey> uh that page is already there?
23:19 <Bleeko> Yea, it should already be there
23:20 <Bleeko> Probably needs a more prominent link though
23:20 <aosdict> great, thanks past me for making less work for current me
23:20 <Furey> https://hardfought.org/tnnt/archives/2023/achievements.html
23:20 <tjw> I was considering writing a script to show who in a clan got certain achievements
23:21 <Furey> It was super helpful when I was planning which achievements to plan for and which ones to say "someone will just get it"
23:21 <aosdict> If anyone has ideas on where to put the link for that (and possibly other "tournament errata" pages), let me know. we can't really put anything else in the header bar
23:22 <aosdict> one thing I was considering was making a "stats" page to link to these sorts of misc statistics pages, and take "Archives" out of the header and put the archives somewhere else (in "About" perhaps)
23:22 <Furey> in the header bar: merge "about' and "rules", or demote "about", or something. "about" is mostly 2017 history.
23:22 <Bleeko> What I like about TNNT is that everyone plays the way they want to.  Last year GIF was ascending hard while the Dinos were doing a lot of achievemnts.   Place for everyone.
23:23 <aosdict> ^ that is exactly what I wanted when I argued for the multi-leaderboard model and against a unified-scoring-algorithm model when that debate happened
23:24 <Bleeko> Well, having a single score is nice because competition, but allowing a bunch of paths to a big number give more opportunity for strategery
23:25 <Furey> I prefer multi leaderboard.
23:25 <Bleeko> Isn't that junethack?
23:25 <tjw> Agreed, multi leaderboard gives a variety of bragging rights, less boring that way
23:25 <Furey> Incoming brag!
23:26 <Furey> This wraith corpse tastes okay.  Achievement unlocked: "Wafer-Thin Mint".  You feel more experienced.  Welcome to experience level 10.
23:26 <tjw> Nice Furey
23:26 <Furey> You feel more confident in your skills.
23:26 <aosdict> IIRC, my case was helped by the fact no one could agree on a fair scoring algorithm
23:26 <Furey> lol
23:27 <aosdict> I mean how do you weight ascs vs streaks vs achievements vs conducts vs...
23:28 <Furey> I like being in a tournament where billdacat is going for world record low turncount, and I like that that is NOT rolled into a uni-score along with all the other dimensions
23:33 <Furey> A little achievement history:
23:33 <Furey> 2018  196/196  order of the cockatrice, teenage nethack ninja turtles, teamsplat
23:33 <Furey> 2019, 2020, 2021: ... nobody clan got a perfect score ...
23:33 <Furey> 2022  316/323  surly dinos
23:33 <Furey> 2023  320/325  surly dinos
23:34 <Furey> So I think the achievements are tuned about right, it's a struggle to shoot for a perfect score for a clan, let alone one player