00:03 [hdf-us] [nerf] Loggers (Hea Elf Mal Neu) reached Mine Town, on T:2043 00:08 I didn't really expect to get far playing pacifist but this is going okay 00:11 I now have two cats. double the power... 00:11 mino-gaazhagens and maji-gaazhagens, 'good cat' and 'evil cat' :p 00:11 hahaha they can flank guys on their own, nice 00:12 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 1555 points, T:2455, quit 00:15 mino-gaazhagens is now a lurker above, I wonder if he can kill shopkeepers 00:17 also a pet fire giant is now kicking some serious ass with a broad pick 00:19 <@hackemslashem> I think lurkers can gulp in one go 00:19 <@shadow_rider> if you get to mines end the bonus xp becomes a boon rather than a curse 00:19 <@shadow_rider> oops wrong channel 00:19 <@hackemslashem> Lurkers are just rather slow 00:20 I got a chickatrice called Omelet too but he's too low level to attack shopkeepers 00:21 the trapper keeps hiding on the ceiling... 00:22 <@hackemslashem> Lmao 00:22 <@hackemslashem> Yani: pets should but hide 00:22 <@hackemslashem> *not 00:24 <[> hiding pets are really annoying 00:26 why tf am I dicking around with pacifist for this long 00:26 <@hackemslashem> It was really detrimental for cartomancers so I disabled for them, definitely feels worthy of extension 00:27 <@hackemslashem> Loggers try illiterate caveman instead, at least you are rewarded for that 00:27 what is the reward? 00:29 [hdf-us] [nerf] Loggers (Hea Elf Mal Neu), 982 points, T:3855, killed by a dwarf 00:29 noooo that was actually going wlel 00:29 well 00:30 <[> do all conducts 00:30 <@hackemslashem> Caveppl get HP boosts the longer they remain illiterate, it's a thing from evilhack 00:30 [ give me a million dollars and i'll consider it 00:30 500k up front 00:31 ah yeah I remember that from evilhack. how big is the HP boost? is it worth caring about? 00:32 <[> is petless pacifist possible? 00:33 technically it should be, just use conflict and be the greatest nethack player of all time by a large margin 00:35 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) stole 5240 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Lahinch's second-hand bookstore, on T:2155 00:36 Loggers_VIII - https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/e8ef3991947bcadeaa27531bad9b6ba03f745666#diff-0f2e3b2377bb39489c72850720f8c79f239a538273fbc7ba4ab4d8b5e56670bf 00:37 small boost 00:37 but increases as you gain exp levels past a certain point 00:37 happy new year all 00:39 that is a really small boost lol 00:39 I guess I will do it just for shits and giggles 00:40 many of those caveperson changes came from sporkhack 00:41 alright bedtime for me, gnite all 00:42 cavemen should get a bonus with blunt weapons 00:42 night k2 00:42 see ya, K2 00:42 oh whoa, in nerfhack cavemen start with red dragon scales 00:42 badass 00:42 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2914 00:43 correction, random dragon scales 00:43 perhaps random colored dragon scales? 00:43 oh wow nope they can start with silver 00:43 speaking of scales, I learned this week that gray dragon scales provide MR even if not turned into scale mail 00:43 "always learnin' 00:43 did you seriously not know scales and scale mail give the same properties 00:44 "AC 3 instead of 9 IIRC but I just needed the MR 00:44 I did not 00:44 I had always hoarded an enchant armor because of that 00:45 this game, I had never seen enchant armor, at 20K turns+ 00:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1944 points, T:3016, killed by a kobold mummy 00:45 the enchant armor is for the AC!!!! 00:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 0 points, T:36, killed by an anti-magic implosion 00:45 hahaha yeah scales and DSM give the same properties 00:45 at least in 3.6. in 3.7 most DSM have a special second extrinsic that the scales don't 00:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) was bestowed with Giantslayer by The Lady, on T:2873 00:46 yeah that's the primary difference nowadays 00:46 so I dropped the dwarven mithril to get worse AC 00:46 you're trading it for MR, it's fine 00:47 sometimes the situation calls for it, I do that all the time 00:47 yes, then I could go below mine town 00:47 shave a couple points of AC off for convenience 00:47 in 3.7 most DSM have a special second extrinsic that the scales don't <- what? I thought scales gave the secondary too. 00:48 as I keep saying, despite playing for a few years now, I don't know a lot of things 00:48 [hdf-us] [nerf] Loggers (Cav Dwa Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1260 00:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) performed his first genocide (disenchanters), on T:2900 00:50 [hdf-us] [nerf] Loggers (Cav Dwa Mal Law), 1067 points, T:1493, killed by an ogre 00:51 cathartes: you are correct, I was thinking of dtsund-style DSM, which most variants use 00:52 me too 00:53 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 552 points, T:1314, killed by a little dog 00:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) polymorphed his first object, on T:3547 00:58 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a Green-elf, on T:3548 00:59 -!- crunchbubba22 has quit [Quit: Client closed] 01:00 [hdf-us] [nh370] Urc (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 3732 points, T:3559, killed by a rothe 01:06 -!- Bleeko has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07 [hdf-us] [nerf] hackemslashem (Val Dwa Fem Law) found the Orb of Fate in the quest, on T:23595 01:08 why are there ki-rin in the castle 01:08 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed] 01:09 [hdf-us] [nerf] hackemslashem (Val Dwa Fem Law) killed Lord Surtur, on T:23626 01:09 [hdf-us] [nerf] hackemslashem (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:23629 01:13 [hdf-au] [nh370] misanthrope (Val Dwa Fem Law) destroyed Vinyl's ghost, the former Excursionist, on T:8245 01:19 wait a minute, i threw my knives in the VotD, i _think_ a xorn picked them up because i saw "3 knives embedded in a wall". how do i get my knives back? 01:20 -!- Peteird has joined #hardfought 01:22 huh? I logged into HF via SSH, logged into UnNetHack, and get something like " bytes read of ", then it quit (I couldn't copy anything). Can someone recover please? 01:22 I don't want to lose all my hard progress. 01:22 That 01:22 's a nasty (and belated) New Year present. 01:26 -!- anselmus has joined #hardfought 01:27 K2? 01:27 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 739 points, T:1241, killed by a bugbear, while fainted from lack of food 01:30 Moult, just kick them out of the wall 01:30 also it's entirely possible for a ki-rin to generate at catle 01:30 castle* 01:30 same with titans and shit 01:31 Umbire: i can't find the xorn nor the wall now 01:33 oh, the xorn must've eaten my knives 01:33 yes it did 01:35 i guess having a stack of 20 knives isn't enough if i keep on losing them to xorns 01:35 Umbire: really annoying to have both a titan and kirin and both summoning 01:40 -!- wvc has joined #hardfought 01:47 [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Con Ith Mal Cha), 4350 points, T:7238, killed by a blue jelly 01:51 [hdf-au] [nh370] Moult (Hea Gno Mal Neu) attained the rank of Herbalist (level 18), on T:43046 02:06 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 02:12 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:16 cathartes, doing up the black pudding article - does its glob have the same deal as the brown pudding glob 02:16 where it's 7% total to give AN intrnisic 02:16 instead of like 7% for each 02:17 Umbire: don't know, I'll have to check the source code. 02:17 I can take a look tomorrow. 02:19 [hdf-us] [slshm] wsx9000 (Wiz Dop Fem Cha), 26004 points, T:11561, killed by a wombat, while helpless 02:20 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 02:20 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 02:30 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law), 2468 points, T:1788, quit 02:34 cathartes, no worries 02:34 sleep well, have a good 'un 02:34 happy new year cathartes and ais523 02:35 happy new year to you too Umbire 02:37 happy new year 02:40 [hdf-eu] [nerf] parasite (Sam Hum Fem Law) was bestowed with Snickersnee by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:2905 02:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1839 02:45 [hdf-eu] [nerf] parasite (Sam Hum Fem Law), 3557 points, T:3099, petrified by a chickatrice 02:47 [hdf-us] [nerf] shadowrider38 (Kni Dwa Mal Law) attained the rank of Knight (level 14), on T:24381 02:49 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) made his first wish - "blessed greased +3 silver dragon scale mail", got "a greased silver dragon scale mail", on T:2744 02:51 [hdf-au] [nh370] misanthrope (Val Dwa Fem Law) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:10042 02:51 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 02:54 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) received Excalibur from a strange woman laying about in a pond, on T:3744 02:55 <@cpittman> I just logged into the US instance and tried to play unnethack. It said I had an ongoing game and asked if I wanted to kill it. I said yes, but now it seems like my game is gone. Is it possible to get my game back? 02:59 [hdf-us] [nerf] shadowrider38 (Kni Dwa Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a lizard, on T:25903 03:00 [hdf-us] [evil] gdiist (Kni Dro Fem Cha) destroyed the invisible gdiist's ghost, the former Mercenary, on T:13572 (9:09:24) 03:00 [hdf-au] [nh370] misanthrope (Val Dwa Fem Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:10563 03:02 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04 [hdf-us] [nerf] shadowrider38 (Kni Dwa Mal Law) killed Wintercloak, on T:26195 03:04 [hdf-us] [nerf] shadowrider38 (Kni Dwa Mal Law) acquired the Sokoban amulet of reflection, on T:26199 03:05 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) entered the Bigroom, on T:5854 03:05 -!- anselmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09 -!- shadowrider38 has joined #hardfought 03:13 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Cha) entered Minetown for the first time, on T:1022 03:17 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Cha) was given Hammerfeet, on T:1231 03:17 it's gone because you said yes when you wanted to kill it 03:18 when it asked if you wanted* 03:18 -!- floating_eye has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18 -!- floating_eye has joined #hardfought 03:19 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) averted death (killed by a lynx), on T:7565 03:21 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:8003 03:24 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Cha) was given Nenya, on T:1659 03:25 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law) was bestowed with Snickersnee by Amaterasu Omikami, on T:8912 03:31 -!- Peteird has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] icantfindaname (Sam Hum Mal Law), 31987 points, T:10158, killed by a doppelganger imitating a minotaur 03:35 -!- cathartes has quit [Quit: happy new year!] 03:35 <@cpittman> I've killed the game before (logged in on another computer without killing the ssh connection) and it didn't get lost. Peteird also lost a game of unnethack earlier today. Might be related 03:35 -!- wvc has joined #hardfought 03:36 Might be 03:47 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Sam Hum Mal Law) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:5114 03:49 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Sam Hum Mal Law), 10271 points, T:5299, killed by a dwarf mummy 03:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 131 points, T:403, killed by a sewer rat 04:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:1096 04:04 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 895 points, T:1107, killed by a killer bee 04:08 [hdf-eu] [nerf] parasite (Cav Dwa Mal Neu), 530 points, T:1558, killed by a jackal 04:08 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:6550 04:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2305 04:09 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed lurchy's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:2315 04:10 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 478 points, T:1242, killed by a wererat 04:13 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed Fukka's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:2516 04:13 [hdf-us] [nerf] shadowrider38 (Kni Dwa Mal Law), 277157 points, T:34102, killed by a priest of Moloch, while paralyzed by a monster 04:13 <@shadow_rider> oof 04:13 <@shadow_rider> nasty 04:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 2885 points, T:2675, killed by a hill orc called Ogunaoth of Zogunu 04:16 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:16 Valley priest? 04:17 <@shadow_rider> no it was temple of moloch 04:17 <@shadow_rider> full hp to dead cuz of paralysis :( 04:17 <@shadow_rider> that ones my fault tho i knew there were a lot of priests in there 04:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 512 points, T:1675, killed by a large kobold 04:20 yeah I wouldn't have taken that chance myself 04:20 ais523, regarding black puddings and brown puddings - where are the intrinsic odds for globs calc'd again 04:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 172 points, T:536, killed by a small mimic 04:24 -!- shadowrider38 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28 shadow so what's the moral here? wear =oFR if you know you're up against priests? 04:30 Umbire: in cpostfx, just like with corpses; see the call in done_eating 04:31 I'm trying to figure out if the percentages given for eating a glob and getting an intrinsic are correct for both puddins 04:31 ah, looks like givit does the acutal randomisation for intrinsic or not 04:31 puddings* 04:32 oddly the calculation is done entirely with permonsts, which implies that the glob size doesn't matter 04:32 (which probably means that when getting intrinsics from puddings, you should eat each glob before killing the next pudding) 04:33 I've noted as much, yeah 04:33 I'm just trying to figure out the numbers 04:34 Black puddings were 22% each for their three intrinsics in 3.4.3, and brown ones were 11% 04:34 hmm, there seems to be a special case to reduce the chance of getting PR from killer bees? 04:34 according to article history 04:34 which isn't reflected in the wiki 04:34 yeah 04:34 Imma fix it 04:34 or, that's only a slight reduction 04:34 25% of the time the corpse is not eligible, the other 75% of the time it is 04:35 -!- elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:36 oh no, it's an increase, I have this backwards 04:36 wow these conditions are hard to read 04:36 a killer bee has an mlevel of 1, so it would normally be a 1/15 chance of poison res, but 25% of the time it is increased to a 1/1 chance 04:36 yeah the telepathy one has me puzzled 04:36 ahhh 04:37 so, 1/4 + 1/15 * 3/4 = 1/4 * 3/60 = 25% + 5% = 30% which is what the wiki specifies 04:37 * so, 1/4 + 1/15 × 3/4 = 1/4 + 3/60 = 25% + 5% = 30% which is what the wiki specifies 04:37 I could detail the case more regardless 04:38 once I sort this pudding thing 04:38 brown puddings are 500 wt, black ones are 900 04:38 the weight doesn't seem to matter? the probability has a numerator of the permonst's level and a denominator that depends on the intrinsic 04:39 oh I'm cooked 04:39 both give cold, shock and poison res 04:39 brown puddings are ML 5, black puddings are twice that 04:40 all of those are a level/15 chance, but the game randomly chooses an intrinsic to try to give, before checking the probability 04:40 [hdf-us] [nh370] qwsaqwsa (Wiz Elf Fem Cha), 1468 points, T:1804, killed by a giant ant 04:40 so it'll be level/45 for each (max 1/3), because they need to pass the 1/3 chance of that intrinsic being chosen 04:40 (I'm checking 3.6 source for this; I haven't checked whether 3.7 changed anything) 04:41 (or, well, I'm actually checking TNNT because I have it handy but doubt it changed anything about intrinsic probability) 04:41 it did not 04:41 with that formula you gave it's 5/45 for each intrinsic that a brown pudding can give 04:41 which tracks with the math for the 11% chance of each 04:42 I forget if being a glob instead of a corpse messes with that some how 04:43 most intrinsics have 15 in the denominator; teleportation is 10, teleport control is 12, telepathy is 1, and poison res is 15 most of the time, but 1 25% of the time (meaning you get it automatically) for killer bees and scorpions 04:43 globs seem to work identically to corpses, see done_eating 04:43 if (piece->otyp == CORPSE || piece->globby) 04:43 cpostfx(piece->corpsenm); 04:44 it is only checking the corpsenm field, so any other properties of the object would only matter if they were being smuggled through global variables, which they don't seem to be 04:44 (there is a global variable, context.victual, but I don't think the intrinsics code checks it) 04:44 so andrio messed the math when updating for 3.6, though idk how 04:46 <@shadow_rider> Moult: moral is skip over anything that can kill you and come back later :p 04:47 <@shadow_rider> free action is necessary at minimum probably need to be way more stacked to be comfortable there, there were four priests 04:48 it might be worth wiztesting just in case I missed something in the code 04:48 for my part, I think I was too used to the whole "partial intrinsics" thing from Evil 04:48 e.g. I didn't specifically check to ensure that done_eating wasn't being called multiple times 04:50 (i didn't know until relatively recently that mind flayers also give telepathy. because floating eyes always have given it to me first) 04:50 but after a quick grep I can't see any way in which globs differ from corpses in the eating code except for the amount of nutrition given 04:50 paxed: it can be relevant if you lose telepathy 04:51 ais523: rarely. 04:52 well people don't lose telepathy very often 04:52 once i found out it's always 100% of getting telepathy, i wanted to lower that. 04:52 it's 50% that 50% +1 Int, iirc 04:52 but there's been at least one occasion where I've lost an intrinsic late-game and had to find late-game sources of it 04:52 backup tins baby 04:52 flayers are 50% for +1 int 04:53 Umbire: the odds of losing any particular intrinsic are too low for backup tins to be worth the time spent creating them or the weight of carrying them 04:53 i would be willing to bet most people don't lose their telepathy once they've gotten it from floating eye. 04:54 telepathy is one of the most likely intrinsics to lose, because you can lose it from murder, and it's not unheard of to accidentally bump an always-peaceful and subsequently be forced to kill it in self-defence 04:54 i would be willing to bet most people don't lose their telepathy once they've gotten it from floating eye. 04:54 it's a chance worth takin' for me 04:54 this is much more likely with the new Cleaver effect – Stormbringer bumps don't normally cause murder penalties because it's normally only used by chaotics, but Cleaver can reasonably be used by neutral characters 04:54 paxed, double-post? 04:55 Umbire: no 04:55 oh, for effect then :B 04:55 everyone does murder. everyone rocks Cleaver. right? 04:55 losing any particular intrinsic is rare, but there are enough games of NetHack played that I'd assume telepathy losses are semi-common if you take the entire NetHack playerbase into account 04:56 paxed: well I Cleaver-bump-killed a shopkeeper in TNNT this year, and I'm normally fairly careful about that sort of thing 04:56 I imagine that sort of thing will happen to most players who play a huge amount, eventually, just like deaths to the floorfood interface 04:57 whatever, i'm off 04:57 [hdf-us] [nh370] amrosa (Kni Hum Mal Law), 48 points, T:1229, killed by a newt, while fainted from lack of food 04:58 imo better to have and not need 04:58 I don't *seek* to play careless and more often than not I don't but Shit Happens™ 05:00 [hdf-eu] [nerf] parasite (Rog Gno Fem Neu), 2723 points, T:4307, killed by a yeti 05:02 [hdf-eu] [dnh] Vis (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 108918 points, T:10838, killed by a baluchitherium zombie 05:03 -!- Glasshopper is now known as Grasshopper 05:05 Umbire: I disagree about the "better to have and not need", there are so many things you might potentially need in NetHack that the mere act of collecting and carrying them all substantially increases risk 05:05 * Umbire shrugs 05:05 it is better to have equipment that lets you survive while searching for what small missing pieces you might need, rather than to have it in advance (more fun, too) 05:06 honestly I'm like 10 times more concerned about this pudding thing than 'arguing' playstyles 05:06 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:2116 05:13 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 196191 points, T:19150, quit 05:16 [hdf-us] [nh370] lurchy (Wiz Elf Mal Cha), 1395 points, T:2312, killed by a gnome lord 05:18 [hdf-us] [nh370] amrosa (Val Hum Fem Law), 139 points, T:610, poisoned by a rotted barbarian corpse 05:22 [hdf-us] [nh370] amrosa (Pri Hum Fem Neu), 37 points, T:87, killed by a poisoned needle 05:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Quinlan (Tou Hum Mal Neu), 2678 points, T:1218, killed by a dwarf 05:31 [hdf-eu] [nerf] DoktorL (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) became Thoth's Envoy of Balance, on T:27087 05:31 [hdf-eu] [nerf] DoktorL (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) was bestowed with spellbook of finger of death, on T:27087 05:45 -!- Umbire has quit [Quit: Umbire zaps a wand of digging!] 05:47 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52 [hdf-eu] [nerf] DoktorL (Wiz Gno Mal Neu) attained the rank of Enchanter (level 14), on T:27698 06:00 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:02 -!- wvc has joined #hardfought 06:04 Even better than farming create monster is farming nasties from a summoner. Pet purple worm acquired. 06:05 Do I dare farm it further for dragon scales, is the question. 06:09 [hdf-us] [nh370] amrosa (Val Hum Fem Law), 409 points, T:1518, killed by a gnome 06:14 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 06:15 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:19 Arseniy: farming create monster? 06:19 Arseniy: usually if i find create monster wand/scroll all i do is hoard them and keep them out of the way of monsters who pick them up to create trouble, i don't actually use them 06:19 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:22 It's a wizard thing, after you get quest artefact you can cast create monster infinitely 06:23 May get useful intrinsics, inventory or death drop items. Some do this for 10 million turns and ascend with 3000 HP. 06:27 Arseniy: just go to a safe enough level and create monsters randomly and kill them for loot? 06:27 Unspeakable cruelty and harm lurk down there. So be it. 06:29 i've just entered gehennom without doing the quest, and i'm XL18 and haven't even started the quest. is that a bad thing? (e.g. being too a high a level will result in harder monsters in the quest) 06:30 also is it just me or is VotD now red in colour? has new colours snuck into vanilla? 06:30 -!- aosdict has joined #hardfought 06:30 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v aosdict] by ChanServ 06:34 " giantslayer should be removed and whoever implemented it should be given no dessert and made to sit in the corner and think about what they did " <-- from the nhqdb, why the giantslayer hate? i've been really enjoying it whomping giants 06:35 in fact i'd say they should pump it to also be good against minotaurs and titans, then it'd be a really neat artifact 06:36 Yes, exactly. 06:38 Arseniy: i assume it's also worthwhile to do this next to an altar to also sacrifice corpses and get gifts? 06:38 Arseniy: because i've got a bunch of wands and scrolls i don't quite know what to do with 06:39 Gehennom before quest is fine for certain roles with tougher quests. Cyclos isn't that bad if you can exploit his lack of MR, and pretty bad otherwise. 06:41 Arseniy: through wiztesting i found that a surefire way to kill cyclops is to just use wands. wand of sleep, then just empty a wand of something (fire, cold, lightning) at him until he dies 06:41 problems begin if wand of sleep misses and then he starts pounding you 06:41 that does rely first on cleaning the weapon of other monsters that get in the way though, don't want dragons in the way 06:41 Arseniy: yes, hopefully another one or two zaps doesnt miss 06:42 so you still need good armour and lots of hit points 06:42 Arseniy: i've got AC-27 and 189hp, pretty beefy right now i _think_ 06:42 i hope 06:44 Arseniy: i'm going to go up to an altar and try your create monster trick and see what happens 06:44 not a wizard, but i've got a good deal of wands/scrolls 06:45 That's how you normally try for gifts. Though truth be told, healer can comfortably ascend with just the staff and perhaps a silver saber. 06:46 but you could get mojo or one of the brands, those are good 06:46 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) was bestowed with Magicbane by Anhur, on T:1619 06:52 [hdf-eu] [nh370] mozzerbob (Val Hum Fem Law) murdered Joonie, her faithful little dog, on T:1572 06:52 <@doktor_l.> @hackemslashem my game has reached a bit of a speed bump when it turned out that wizard quest nemesis spawns without bell of opening. 06:53 lol ouch 06:54 <@doktor_l.> I suspect that lua inventory definition overwrites it 06:56 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:2408 06:57 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 06:57 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 06:59 Arseniy: in xnh at least I found the staff pretty poor as a weapon 07:00 well here it kicks butt because normal regen has been nerfed and the staff heals you in no less than two different ways 07:01 plus it's excellent damage against anything that's like not undead or deamon, undead are mostly chums and for demons you can have silver saber 07:01 mostly chumps* 07:03 Arseniy: whats the regen / healing difference in the staff between vanilla and xnh? 07:04 It's a wizard thing, after you get quest artefact you can cast create monster infinitely ← for a non-wizard it isn't infinite but you can make a very large number of monsters just off deathdropped /oCM and ?oCM, I did that in TNNT 07:04 Does xnh have same regen as 3.6? Because if so, in 3.7 it's more than an order of magnitude slower at high XP level 07:07 The difference is how any character regenerates HP naturally. So then when it's so slow, regen from the staff makes huge difference. 07:12 xnh has different Pw regen formula, I forget about HP 07:13 looks like hp is the same as 3.6 (I haven't merged in vanilla recently so it doesn't have the 3.7 change to regen) 07:14 [hdf-us] [evil] gdiist (Kni Dro Fem Cha) polymorphed her first object, on T:15877 (11:23:51) 07:14 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nurdglaw (Hea Hum Mal Neu), 4223 points, T:8351, killed by an ogre, while fainted from lack of food 07:15 -!- nurdglaw has joined #hardfought 07:19 ais523: is it better to farm create monster on a shallow level or deeper level (assume next to an altar) 07:25 [hdf-us] [evil] gdiist (Kni Dro Fem Cha) had a steel two-handed sword entrusted to her by Lolth, on T:16091 (11:35:31) 07:30 Moult: it depends on what you want to accomplish with it 07:30 in my case I was looking for magic lamp deathdrops, so I farmed in Gehennom which has the highest chance to drop tools 07:31 if you are altar farming for, e.g., artifacts, deeper is significantly better in 3.7 and slightly better in 3.6 07:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:4531 07:34 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vinyl (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) killed Holmavik, the general store proprietrix, on T:5489 07:35 [hdf-us] [evil] krm26 (Kni Hum Fem Cha), 6024194 points, T:114687, ascended https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/k/krm26/evilhack/dumplog/1735151970.evil.html 07:40 -!- Peteird has joined #hardfought 07:41 [hdf-us] [nh343] Peteird (Wiz Gno Fem Neu), 8227 points, T:4802, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted pyrolisk 07:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] GrmlyFndsh (Ran Elf Mal Cha) reached Mine Town, on T:9099 07:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] GrmlyFndsh (Ran Elf Mal Cha) rejected atheism by offering a killer bee corpse on an altar of Mars, on T:9178 07:47 [hdf-us] [nh370] GrmlyFndsh (Ran Elf Mal Cha) was bestowed with Orcrist by Mars, on T:9178 07:49 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vinyl (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) polymorphed her first object, on T:6120 07:53 ais523: this came up the other day so I figured I'd ask, do you anticipate a strategy of "farm an early altar by using a ring of aggravate monster to make tougher monsters generate" to take hold? 07:53 [hdf-eu] [nerf] mobileuser (Pri Vam Mal Cha) just blew up his bag of holding, on T:13491 07:54 tougher monsters of course have a risk of killing you but a lot of them can be kept at bay with elbereth 07:54 aww... 07:54 well that is my first BoH explosion of 2025 out of the way 07:55 you're supposed to blow up your boh at the stroke of midnight when everyone else is setting off explosions 07:55 aosdict: I am planning to further change the =oAM, I tried playtesting the new effect, it didn't go well :-D 07:55 oh really? how so? 07:56 a character who wear-tests it early in the game is almost guaranteed to die 07:56 which kind-of messes up the whole ring ID game 07:56 most "bad idea to wear this" items at least let you escape with a prayer or the like 07:57 but the =oAM gives you potentially multiple spawns of late-midgame enemies whlie you're still a starting character 07:57 what's a starting character meant to do against a group of winter wolf cubs and a leocrotta? 07:58 I mean, my early game characters die to naturally generated leocrottas more than I'd like 07:58 not on dlvl1 :-D 07:59 I'm currently thinking about changing it to double the level difficulty rather than the current flat bonus, that way it should have a noticeable but not extreme effect everywhere, rather than being incredibly deadly in the early game and mostly irrelevant in the late game 08:00 hmm can't you pray to get rid of a cursed ring? though I do get that the effect is not obvious until a dragon comes around the corner 08:00 or you could simply make agg monster not usually be cursed 08:01 no, it kills you even as an uncursed ring 08:01 unless you take it off immediately 08:01 the monsters spawn out of sight while you are wearing the ring, taking it off after that doesn't change the fact that the monsters have spawned 08:02 I'm not sure how I feel about doubling level difficulty, imo level_difficulty is overused versus plain depth and there are a number of mechanics that factor in the player's XP level when it would be weird to do so 08:03 for monster gen it's fine, referring more to level generation stuff 08:03 well, it might make sense to limit it to just monster gen 08:04 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Sam Hum Fem Law) reached Mine Town, on T:1855 08:05 <@hackemslashem> Ah crap, I think you are correct, the Lua def probably did it. I figured there might be a game stopping bug, sorry you had to be the first 😔 08:06 You'll have to release a new version where if player name is DoktorL then bell of opening spawns at the castle or something 08:07 Or maybe K2 can tinker with my save in wizard mode? Not sure. 08:08 usual way of dealing is the game's just unwinnable 08:08 That will be the last time I ever try any variant, if that's the case 08:09 @hackemslashem I am working on the bug you raised in xnh slightly over a year ago, sorry it's taken this long 08:10 -!- Peteird has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10 this is a really intriguing problem because I don't see an obvious solution to it. setting thrownobj in drop() doesn't do the trick (there are other ways to reproduce this besides simple dropping) 08:11 the annoying way to fix it that will lead to annoying merge conflicts is to make strange_feeling() not call useup() 08:11 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 08:16 !tell K2 Is there still a back-up save of my current nerfack game from before I first entered quest goal level? I may (though not yet) need to revert to it to work around a bug that makes wizard unwinnable at the moment. 08:16 K2 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, Arseniy. 08:17 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Vinyl (Wiz Gno Fem Neu) was bestowed with Magicbane by Thoth, on T:7738 08:19 <@hackemslashem> Arseniy: probably doesn't make you feel better but know that I lost many promising local games before release, like that one time I forgot to put stairs down in the new castle variant 3 😛 08:22 In a local game you can always patch the code or tinker with save file yourself. 08:23 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed amrosa's ghost, the former Skirmisher, on T:5994 08:24 Or that's what I would have done if I had a local game I cared about. There is simply no such thing as unwinnable local game. 08:31 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed lurchy's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:6044 08:38 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Fukka (Sam Hum Fem Law), 9667 points, T:7011, killed by a panther 08:38 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 9724 points, T:11090, killed by a bolt of fire 08:39 I had a strange xnh bug once with a glitched-out-of-existence juiblex 08:39 And in vanilla 3.7 at one point instakilled magic traps for early wizard 08:42 Arseniy I had the exact same thing with a splice game, there was no solution and I escaped the dungeon 08:43 arseniy, was that issue with the bell only for your role or? 08:44 <@hackemslashem> Arseniy: i know it sucks but i hope you'll keep trying variants 08:45 [hdf-us] [nh370] kh (Wiz Elf Mal Cha) destroyed Fukka's ghost, the former Thaumaturge, on T:6217 08:46 Yes, only wizard is affected. 08:47 Arseniy: I do something similar for unwinnable games on nethack4.org 08:47 including during tournaments: as long as the game is unwinnable due to a game bug (or the character died as a direct consequence of the game bug) I rewind the save 08:48 I haven't had to do it in years though 08:53 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 2096 points, T:1491, killed by a gas cloud 08:54 <@hackemslashem> Better check all the other quest nemesis inventories too... 08:55 <@hackemslashem> Looks like manually adding the bell to the quest nemeses's inventory does fix it though 08:55 [hdf-eu] [nh370] Corvus (Mon Hum Mal Law), 150 points, T:956, killed by a gnome lord 08:55 @hackemslashem another possibility is to remove the discard_minvent call from create_monster, but not sure if you have other monsters with defined invent that you DO want to toss out the items they normally receive 08:57 <@hackemslashem> That's sounds good, it might be nice to update their inventories in the future without that worry... 08:57 Do both, it would be cool to have two bells of opening. 08:58 <@hackemslashem> lol 08:58 <@hackemslashem> Or maybe I should stick with handling stuff in makemon... 08:59 <@hackemslashem> I checked all the other nemeses - no other inventory adjustments so it's isolated to wiz 09:02 [hdf-eu] [nh370] nurdglaw (Hea Hum Mal Neu) destroyed lurchy's ghost, the former Conjurer, on T:2091 09:04 -!- crunchbubba63 has joined #hardfought 09:09 hmm I have an idea for a vanilla fix to this (still discard minvent if the lua programmer specifies one, but keep unique objects) 09:11 <@hackemslashem> Oh ? I couldn't think of many scenarios where you'd want to discard the inventory 09:11 <@hackemslashem> I like your original idea because it allows writing quest leader and nemesis inventory in a much cleaner way. 09:12 plenty of scenarios - you create idk a unique soldier with great weapons and armor, you don't want him having those plus the same old dagger and maybe attack wand and a second set of armor 09:12 <@hackemslashem> Oh, actually, if you specify an armor I guess you woun't want them getting another cloak, right right 09:12 <@hackemslashem> *multiple cloaks for example 09:13 <@hackemslashem> I'm fairly groggy from last night, still need coffee 09:13 <@hackemslashem> In that case I'll just go the makemon route and wait for you to try something better, I should push this up quickly 09:13 can probably throw in a boolean flag keep_invent so that it's still possible to define a monster that gets their regular random inventory, with supplemental items as the lua programmer wishes 09:14 yeah I would be doing this as a vanilla PR 09:15 -!- Peteird has joined #hardfought 09:17 !tell K2 my game has also crashed (don't know, maybe not crashed). I got something like " bytes read of " (exact text not sure because it quit by itself), then when I started UnNetHack again it told me there's an option to recover, destroy, or do nothing yet. I chose to not recover yet. Please recover (since I don't trust automatical recover), this hero is an extremely promising wizard. 09:17 K2 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, Peteird. 09:23 [hdf-eu] [evil] Kaizo (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) murdered her faithful pseudodragon, on T:3 (0:00:04) 09:26 <@hackemslashem> Ok I pushed up the wizard fix on my end 09:31 people are queueing up at K2's door waiting for him to wake up from nye partying 09:31 my brain tries to parse "nye" as being somehow related to New York, even though I know what it stands for 09:31 (I was trying to sleep during the new year but got woken up by all the fireworks) 09:32