00:00 What is that set of monsters? All monsters capable of speech? 00:00 congrats on new spl version AntiGulp 00:00 Thank you thank you! 00:01 lol 00:01 yay new version woo 00:01 meanwhile my 6.0 release checklist sits there as formidable as ever 00:01 I'm probably going to boot features off it that aren't refined enough, like the "add intelligent pet patch" one 00:01 AntiGulp: i streamed your game on the interwebs and i even got one viewer at some point 00:01 amateurhour 00:02 aosdict: You’ve got this! You’ll get there. 00:02 aoei: Damn, I’m sorry I missed it! 00:02 AntiGulp: im still not dead tho 00:02 so thats nice 00:02 insert holy grail quote 00:03 famous last words before mines end splat 00:04 does hanging the lampshade unjinx it? 00:04 nah probably not rng too mean 00:04 RNG is a cruel but fair god 00:04 this is true 00:05 no denying it's fair 00:09 callous 00:09 uncaring 00:09 etc. 00:12 actually, tho i completely reject theism, if there was a god of some sort it'd have to be essentially a cosmic RNG 00:12 I remember the tagline for the old slashem app was “Commercial games want you to win. NetHack doesn’t care whether you live or die. Slash’Em wants you DEAD.” 00:12 nothing else makes sense 00:12 AntiGulp: XD 00:14 in this sense i think Slex is true to its predecessor 00:18 True 00:19 is SLASH'EM itself still actively developed i wonder? 00:24 [hdf-us] [nh370] Karnac (Pri Hum Mal Neu), 96 points, T:254, killed by a water demon 00:25 [hdf-us] [nh343] klintos (Tou Hum Mal Neu) eschewed atheism, by dropping a curved sword on an altar, on T:5052 00:26 aoei: Not as far as anyone knows. There was someone who had a github repo and seemed to be updating it but I think that’s dead. 00:26 AntiGulp: Whoever wrote _that_ (and the rgrn post that started it off) never played DCSS :-) 00:27 :-) 00:27 I tried playing IVAN. I’m no longer afraid of anything 00:29 -!- ais523 has joined #hardfought 00:29 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v ais523] by ChanServ 00:31 AntiGulp: that someone would be me :) 00:31 and, let's say semi-dead (hibernating?) 00:31 I do work on it from time to time, but I haven't been spending as much energy on any form of nethack lately 00:32 Oh nice, I didn’t know that! :) 00:32 * AntiGulp needs to keep better track of nicknames 00:39 moon-child: soup 00:41 aoei: SOUP 00:42 hai 00:43 o hai mark 00:43 whos mark 00:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIFFywo_-1w 00:46 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 00:47 aoei: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Room watch this movie it's great 00:48 i have heard it is shockingly bad to the point of morbid fascination in the viewer 00:48 not got around to watchin tho 00:51 gona play more splice 00:51 !rng sleep | play more brogue 00:51 AntiGulp: play more brogue 00:51 dang, guess I’m not sleeping 00:51 lol 00:52 AntiGulp: go to sleep tho 00:52 Yeah, real talk I’m going to bed 00:52 Night y’all 00:52 kk 00:52 night AntiGulp 00:53 -!- AntiGulp has quit [Quit: *dissolves into golden butterflies*] 00:54 [hdf-us] [nh343] klintos (Tou Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a wererat, on T:7527 00:55 [hdf-eu] [spl] aoei (Bar Hum Fem Cha) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:5721 01:08 @v? wraith 01:11 moon-child: your nick is familiar 01:11 Elronnd? 01:12 ais523: no spaces 01:12 @v?wraith 01:12 but the bot seems to be dead anyway 01:12 wratih is a darkgray W, its corpse makes you level up, it can level drain you 01:13 it's not a difficult monster to face 01:13 FIQ: yah, I'm elronnd 01:13 among its flags is genocideable 01:13 it probably has some others too 01:14 this has been FIQ; at your service 01:14 was it ;o 01:14 I thought it was FredrIQ 01:15 FredrIQ is my altnick 01:16 i thought it was VariantAuthor3 01:16 my nicks, in order of what I try to use: FIQ, FredrIQ, Fredrik1994, FIQ1994, Expendable 01:17 <@riker> lol you just give up on "FIQ" after a certain point 01:17 <@riker> have you ever made it there? 01:17 there was one site where I resorted to Fredrik2 IIRC 01:17 but that was a very long time ago 01:18 oh I missed one after FIQ1994; FredrIQ1994 01:18 the rest is accurate 01:18 and yeah, I prefer Fredrik1994 over FIQ1994 and FredrIQ1994 01:18 because it used to be my main nick before FIQ 01:19 the other 2 after that is just "ok let's see if my nick works if I stick in a 1994 in it" 01:19 FIQ1994 is really as far as I go on a somewhat common basis 01:19 it's my steam username 01:19 for instance 01:20 FredrIQ1994 is rare, Expendable basically never works if the rest failed, and was basically just something I came up with once when nothing worked, and it just happened to work 01:20 an expendable username 01:20 i used to have different orderings of my vowels 01:21 but i think atm its just aoei and then aoei_ 01:21 everything except my email conforms to the above list 01:22 my email username was the very first account I created on the internet, although it was hotmail back then 01:22 when I switched to gmail I kept the username part 01:22 it's "fredde1994" 01:22 fredde is what a couple of people has called me irl 01:23 I liked elronnd because it left room for a lot of other thematically similar nicks 01:24 earenndil (though perhaps that should be eärenndil), gilthonniel, &c 01:24 y no mines bag tho 01:24 at some point I want to move sokoban rewards to lower mines 01:24 how come 01:24 cuz fuck sokoban? 01:25 and remove sokoban altogether 01:25 FIQ: good call i support this 01:25 sokoban was cool tho ;-; 01:25 moon-child: your entire world view is flawed 01:25 (granted it would have been a lot cooler if ais had finished his soko generator) 01:26 <@riker> fuck soko 01:26 aoei: ok, granted soko is obviously somewhat flawed. But I don't think the solution is to get rid of it entirely 01:26 @riker D: 01:26 sokoban itself is a cool puzzle 01:26 <@riker> lokoban ftw 01:26 but it doesnt make sense in nethack 01:26 FIQ: we were discussing in #nethack whether it was genocidable, I didn't know 01:26 aoei: why not 01:26 <@riker> i support genociding sokoban, yeah 01:27 nethack's bread and butter is making different systems interact; nonmodality. Like shops 01:27 moon-child: because its only interesting to new players unless you go the bhaak route 01:27 like for anyone else its do boring muscle memory thing for a few levels 01:28 bhaak route? 01:28 and the problem with unnethack imo 01:28 is that i really want soko prize but im only occasionally in the mood to make an effort to solve unknown puzzles 01:28 granted this is mainly personal perspective 01:29 but making it interesting by having better, more varied puzzles puts me off unnh unless im really in the mood to do hard soko puzzles 01:29 and regular old soko is just plain boring 01:30 both of these options are lame imo 01:31 also with un if i make a decent effort to figure out soko and then still fuck up terribly, its a bit of a barrier to continuing a game 01:31 demoralising somewhat 01:32 but i dont want to just read unnh soko spoilers cuz then its just gonna be more encoding muscle-memory but for a larger map set 01:32 maybe replace it with a boulder-themed branch 01:32 a bunch of boulders and rolling boulder traps or something 01:32 idk 01:33 like i kinda appreciate the idea of un soko 01:33 but in practice it often just frustrates me 01:33 isn't un soko just normal soko but with 3 floors instead of 4 01:33 FIQ: and a billion new maps 01:33 they're all on the wiki 01:33 which are quite difficult to solve 01:33 FIQ: see my point above about if i read spoilers im just encoding new muscle memory algorithms 01:33 I still need the wiki for 2a 01:33 then its just as boring as vanilla soko 01:34 aoei: oh I don't try to solve levels on my own unless they're easy 01:34 because I want the rewards 01:34 I don't want to do soko 01:34 yeah i get thta, and i also kinda get that im making this hard for myself 01:34 if you can defeat the entire purpose of a puzzle by being spoiled, something is wrong imo 01:34 but to me the whole point of un soko is to have interesting soko puzzles 01:34 nethack does not thrive on spoiler demand, in fact it's the worst part of the game IMO 01:35 it's a roguelike, not a puzzle game 01:35 mm 01:36 Sil seems better in this regard, at least insofar as i have progressed in that game 01:36 and yeah 01:36 failing a soko level not because you did something stupid 01:36 but because you made a typo 01:36 is awful 01:36 FIQ: oh yah 01:36 that is mean 01:36 FIQ: play sil 01:36 i think its actually a better game 01:37 special infinity level? 01:37 idk 01:37 Sil-Q 01:37 its from the other line of rogue descendents 01:37 moria/angband branch 01:37 special infinity level has the sceptre of chaos in ADOM 01:37 it replaces I:66 01:37 i dont know what any of these things are 01:37 well 01:37 isn't Sil-Q an angband variant 01:37 ADOM yes 01:37 FIQ: yeah,or descendent or whatever idk 01:38 like i said 01:38 from what I know of angband, it doesn't sound like something I'd like 01:38 moria/angand branch of rogue children 01:38 FIQ: i did not like angband 01:38 i do like Sil 01:38 FIQ: it is very tough tho 01:38 you decide for yourself where to spend xp on skills/abilities 01:39 and if you mess it up you can quickly be outpaced by the monster difficulty 01:39 FIQ: on top of that 01:39 the game forces a minimum depth, which increases over time 01:39 you can stay on a level as long as you like, but any attempt to change level will land you in mindepth 01:40 this works as a cool mechanic to keep you moving and keep the tension up 01:40 imo 01:40 i vaguely wonder if it would work in *hacks 01:42 FIQ: also seems to have less ridiculous gotchas and instadeaths and such 01:43 .. god damn it 01:44 i forgot to #untrap a chest 01:44 lost lev ring, poly wand 01:44 :( 01:46 aoei: ok 01:46 idk i think is cool game n stuf 01:46 just sayin 01:46 aoei: "where to spend xp on skills" sounds awfully much like dcss 01:46 I don't like this part of dcss very much 01:46 FIQ: i have mixed feelings about it myself 01:46 because it's the source of 90% of my failure playing dcss 01:47 and searched for some guides on good builds to try 01:47 it's ridiculously opaque to figure out how to deal with skills the best way 01:47 because in the beginninng i just died al ot 01:47 cuz i wasnt focusing on the most important things for early on 01:47 and it is very unclear how you could have done better with it 01:47 I detest it 01:47 this is why I like playing gnolls in dcss 01:47 so in that sense you kidna want some spoilers or hints 01:47 can't train skills wrong if you have no choices to make :D 01:48 but aside from that it seems you can go pretty far unspoiled 01:48 (dcss gnolls train every skill evenly with no choice on your part to deviate) 01:48 because the game actually tells you stuff 01:48 and explains a fair amount of the mechanics 01:49 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:50 one thing I want to do in fiqhack is reduce spoiler demand 01:50 cool 01:50 one example this has been done in is by giving monster stats in-game 01:50 but it could go much further 01:51 FIQ: sil has that too! 01:51 altho first encounters you won't know 01:57 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 02:03 -!- Menchers has joined #hardfought 02:04 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:04 what do DCSS gnolls get to compensate for the skill arrangement being terrible? 02:05 also, DCSS skill training is much worse than FIQ implied 02:05 for example, some skills are best trained to specific numbers; the interface has started spoiling this information in item descriptions, but it's still a lot of extra complexity on top of a mechanic that wasn't originally intended to be player-controllable 02:06 but the crusade to get rid of victory dancing somehow ended up creating something even worse, because when you get full control over something and the game is meant to be difficult, understanding all the nuances of the full control suddenly becomes really important 02:07 (for people who don't know DCSS: victory dancing was an exploit that gave you full control over where your skill points went, and was fairly tedious; the "fix" to this was to give the player full control over skill point allocation via menu rather than needing an exploit, but because it was no longer an exploit the game started to be balanced around it existing) 02:08 that sounds bad 02:17 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:29 !tell ais523 they get a +8 skill aptitude in most skills 02:29 I'm on it, FIQ. 02:30 !tell ais523 and have the highest attributes in the game after demigods (who can't play with a god, which is a major drawback) 02:30 ais523 shall be duly informed at the first opportunity, FIQ. 02:45 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 02:50 [hdf-eu] [spl] aoei (Bar Hum Fem Cha) entered Sokoban, on T:7708 02:51 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56 -!- amateurhour has joined #hardfought 02:59 -!- mobileuser has joined #hardfought 03:17 aoei: how is screwing up unnethack's sokoban a barrier to continue the game? 03:18 bhaak: maybe my psychology is just rubbish 03:18 but it puts me off, i find it demoralising 03:19 which one did you mess up 03:19 human players aren't always totally rational about shit 03:19 -!- tromix has joined #hardfought 03:19 maybe you have to adjust your expectations? the target of sokoban is to get the soko prize and in unnethack you have more options than just "solve sokoban properly" 03:19 amateurhour: i was more talking about my general grips with unnethack sokoban 03:20 bhaak: yes, well I did admit that stubbornly trying to adhere to "do sokoban properly" makes it harder for myself 03:20 oh, I like most of unnethack's sokoban puzzles 03:20 -!- tromix has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20 im not saying unnethack sokoban is objectively wrong, just why i get frustrated by it personally 03:20 -!- tromix has joined #hardfought 03:21 I did them a lot in slex as sokosolver 03:22 the two I don't like are the one with the giant circle of boulders 03:22 and this one https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Sokoban_Level_4f 03:36 -!- stenno1 has joined #hardfought 03:44 [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Mon Hum Mal Law) attained the rank of Initiate, on T:3506 03:51 -!- stenno1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55 [hdf-eu] [spl] aoei (Bar Hum Fem Cha) attained the rank of Brigand, on T:8738 03:56 [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Mon Hum Mal Law) entered Sokoban, on T:5319 03:59 [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Mon Hum Mal Law) became literate by engraving "Elbereth", on T:5504 04:11 [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Mon Hum Mal Law), 9681 points, T:6652, killed by a troll 04:11 *sigh*, and that was such a good game. :( Didn't realise Trolls follow you up/down stairs. 04:17 rip 04:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Pri Ith Fem Cha), 5833 points, T:4564, drowned in a pool of water 04:21 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 04:29 [hdf-au] [nh370] Arahael (Mon Hum Mal Law), 4674 points, T:1487, killed by a soldier ant 04:33 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Sam Gia Fem Law) eschewed atheism, by dropping a mithril bow on an altar, on T:3006 04:40 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Sam Gia Fem Law), 6738 points, T:4312, killed by a soldier ant 04:42 It's curious how in each game something becomes realy really common. This time floating e's are like, the most common monster. 04:44 Silly RNG. 04:44 -!- bug_sniper has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:49 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Cen Fem Cha), 1020 points, T:1675, killed by a dwarf 04:50 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 04:50 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v LarienTelrunya] by ChanServ 04:56 [hdf-us] [spl] Everdying (Hea Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Mines' End luckstone, on T:9898 04:57 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Cen Fem Cha), 1742 points, T:1858, choked on a tin of spinach 05:06 -!- theRaisse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:08 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu) had a pair of snow boots entrusted to her by Crom, on T:4167 05:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed fixed +3 sword of bheleu", on T:5188 05:14 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu), 3493 points, T:5191, killed by a death ray 05:18 [hdf-eu] [nh370] tromix (Bar Hum Mal Cha), 97042 points, T:19916, killed by an orange dragon 05:22 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3306 05:25 -!- elenmirie_ has joined #hardfought 05:27 -!- theRaisse has joined #hardfought 05:28 -!- elenmirie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32 [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Pri Ith Mal Cha) had a heavy mace entrusted to him by Anshar, on T:12419 05:33 things are pretty scary in sokozoo 05:36 terrifying even 05:37 [hdf-eu] [spl] aoei (Bar Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, on T:10133 05:38 ^ ascension when 05:38 mobileuser: its not yet safe 05:38 i locked myself in the cupboard 05:38 :c 05:39 :b 05:39 i dont have a lot of good ranged attack 05:39 and there are these acid worm things 05:39 im like 90% sure meleeing them with my two-handed sword is a bad plan 05:39 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming a little dog, on T:6603 05:40 god damn it 05:40 oh oh 05:41 wat do 05:41 giant zombie broke the door? 05:41 think so lol 05:41 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:6846 05:41 i mean im still on Esquare and ?oSM 05:42 but i don tthin kthat stops the acid thingies from spitting at me 05:42 i wonder if i can teleport myself now ive completed soko 05:42 if not i can zap tele at the monsters and make a run for it 05:42 noteleport I think 05:42 mk 05:42 so zap them 05:42 cant 05:42 connection died again 05:42 gr 05:42 brb anyway 05:43 mobileuser: oh also lol 05:43 the scary bit is 05:44 i actually have no clue what im doing 05:44 unless you count the extensive knowledge of vanilla nethack, i know basically nothing about splice 05:44 it's not slex ;-) 05:44 true 05:44 that's the important bit 05:45 but if i managed to get this far in slex i would be like 05:45 very proud 05:45 slex has a pokedex, does splice have one too? 05:45 It's not so different from vanilla 05:45 LarienTelrunya: er i should check that 05:45 not sure 05:45 knowing your enemy is half the battle or something, probably a quote from Sun Tzu :P 05:45 I think it has in-game descriptions 05:46 lol yeah Amy sounds about right 05:46 afk for a bit anyway 05:46 I made it to the valley of the dead without any splice knowledge 05:46 not bad 05:46 You should be fine 05:47 heh, I ascended splice without much knowledge (and I even stumbled into the void in that game and somehow survived) 05:48 ^ you are now the designated splice expert :b 05:49 that was years ago, the game has probably changed a lot since 05:49 both by splice itself changing and because 3.6/3.7 kept implementing more ******** :P 05:49 :o 05:49 amy do you not like new nethack 05:50 lol is that a serious question? 05:50 no XD 05:50 waaaaaat how could you go for this long without ever hearing me bitch about 3.6? 05:50 honestly 05:50 exactly, don't start!!!! 05:50 i dont think i have heard much from you 05:50 but everyone knows you hate 3.6/3.7 XD 05:51 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:51 it is also established canon that Slex always works as intended 05:51 -!- rebatela has joined #hardfought 05:51 nah not always, ziratha encountered a crash bug that I now have to track down 05:51 ;o 05:51 but usually 05:52 why can't I reproduce that shit bug on windows :/ 05:52 lol 05:52 K2 is having the opposite problem 05:52 aoei I remember you need to watch out for kangoroos 05:52 its probably some linux specific code somewhere 05:52 (In K2's case some win-specific code) 05:52 * kangaroos 05:53 Amy you're gonna have to do some debugging on an actual linux machine, or get someone to help 05:53 that doesn't sound so bad, on windows you just attach gdb and reproduce the error 05:53 most likely 05:53 they are fast, hit hard and come in groups 05:53 LarienTelrunya: that is also the standard method on linux 05:54 in this particular case ziratha encountered a panic though, which left no backtrace, only an error message 05:54 hrm 05:55 idk. im still guessing you may have to reproduce it on linux 05:55 well yeah I have ziratha's save 05:55 right 05:55 depending on which state it got recovered to, it may or may not be possible to reproduce 05:56 true 05:56 but try it on linux anyway 05:56 remove_object: obj not on floor 05:57 [hdf-eu] [evil] microlance (Bar Gia Fem Neu) made her first wish - "blessed fixed greased +3 silver tsurugi of frost", on T:7920 05:57 yep the crash happens immediately upon trying to move when I load his save 05:57 so it is linux only? 05:57 dunno yet 05:57 hmmmmmm if I load the game and just wait, no crash 05:57 if I teleport out of the engulfing monster, no crash either 05:58 so it's strictly upon trying to move 05:58 huh 05:58 weird 05:58 context: he got engulfed while punished, which has always been buggy 05:58 oic 05:58 I've implemented the 3.6 bugfix (sacrilege!!! happens once in a blue moon that I implement something from that variant) and thought the bug was gone now, but apparently it only moved the problem instead of fixing it 05:58 Amy put a breakpoint on panic 05:59 or on impossible 05:59 whichever you're triggering, then you've got your backtrace 05:59 oh yea 05:59 smart, listen to that guy 05:59 well there's also a different bug, in that the player somehow cannot attack the engulfing monster by bumping sometimes 06:00 this seems to be the case here, so the game tries to move the engulfed player, tries to move the (nonexistant, because engulfed) ball and chain, and blam. 06:00 seems plausible 06:01 figuring out why on earth it tries to move the hero instead of attack the monster is what I actually want to do, because that's the main bug that I absolutely want to get rid of 06:01 that one only ever seems to happen on unix for some reason 06:01 yep tested, if I force-fight the monster it doesn't crash 06:01 that seems particularly odd 06:02 none of these mechanics seem to have obvious reasons why they'd have unix specific code lol 06:02 i wonder why it is like that 06:02 if (u.uswallow) { u.dx = u.dy = 0; u.ux = x = u.ustuck->mx; u.uy = y = u.ustuck->my; mtmp = u.ustuck; } 06:03 those things must somehow be getting overwritten 06:03 at least they wrote the code in a readable and easy to understand fashion 06:03 maybe not unix specific, maybe compiler specific, what is the crash? 06:04 amateurhour: hm yea good point 06:04 could be undefined behaviour with read after free or something like that 06:04 idk what ustuck is or how it's modified 06:04 the crash is a panic: remove_object: obj not on floor 06:05 have you tried breakpointing on panic? 06:06 not sure how to do that 06:06 br panic 06:06 when you've attached gdb type 'b panic' 06:06 No symbol table is loaded. Use the "file" command. 06:06 Make breakpoint pending on future shared library load? (y or [n]) 06:06 or just b lol i didnt realise that also worked 06:06 compile slex again with -g Amy 06:06 you may need to recompile with the proper debugger symbols and things 06:07 uhh but we did compile it with debug symbols?! 06:07 if -g doesn't work try -ggdb 06:07 apparently that sometimes fixes it 06:07 or -g3 if you have a sane compiler to preserve macros as well 06:07 if you're on win 06:07