00:09 [gh] k2 (Mon Elf Mal Neu) retrieved the Mine's End luckstone, on T:5150 00:12 [gh] k2 (Mon Elf Mal Neu), 14019 points, T:5390, killed by a gargoyle 00:25 I like that whoever created these arrays defining material weight and AC had to think up reasonable values for things like LIQUID and VEGGY. 00:26 e - a vegetable plate mail 00:27 aos, where do you have one of those? 00:27 is that slashem extended aosdict? 00:28 no, grunt 00:28 you can't actually get one 00:29 but the code is there to calculate its weight and AC if you could 00:34 v - a blessed fireproof +0 pair of flesh gloves. 00:35 * aosdict wonders if you can eat the gloves 00:36 This pair of flesh gloves is delicious! 00:36 wishing for liquid justgives you that objects normal base material 00:36 -!- Manaflare has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37 veggy/vegetable doesnt work 00:38 z - [ a blessed +0 pair of silver gauntlets of power and dexterity 00:38 playing monk in gh, that'll definitely be on my wish list 00:40 ais523: I just noticed that the ARMOR macro defines AC as 10 minus the provided AC, so you define plate mail as 3, and fedora as 10, and so on. Would it be reasonable to change this and the AC values so that the values in objects.c can actually be sensical base AC? 00:40 aosdict: there have been mistakes in the past due to people misunderstanding how the value works 00:41 I'm not sure if changing that would make things less confusing or even more so 00:41 what do you mean by sensical? 00:41 aosdict? 00:41 if I redid the objects.c definition from scratch, it'd make sense to change that in the process 00:41 K2: I assume it's the opposite of "nonsensical" 00:41 K2: e.g. plate mail is 7, fedora is 0 00:41 what the wiki lists as "base AC" 00:41 ais523 I didnt know you were funny 00:42 ;) 00:42 aosdict gotcha 00:42 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sensical 00:42 ah i stand corrected. you're not 00:42 I should have probably used sensible 00:43 "sensical" doesn't quite mean the same thing, IMO 00:43 but as a backformed word, it's not 100% obvious what it means, as different people are likely to have discovered it independently 00:43 with the current 10 - ac in the macro, it seems like that makes life easier for developers used to early edition D&D armor class / the status quo of the code, and annoying for everyone else 00:44 (you can compare words like "cromulent", which has a similar meaning, but which is understood differently by different people given the circumstances under which it was coined) 00:44 aosdict: well, I've wanted to get rid of AC from the UI because it's a completely backwards way to do things 00:44 (and by D&D3E, it had been changed to count up from 10 rather than down from 10) 00:45 i know what the word means, i was asking aosdict in what context. rofl 00:45 ais523: you want to hide the user's AC/Def from the status bar? 00:46 aosdict: no, just to change it to count upwards 00:46 i.e. any value that counts "backwards" should be hidden from the user and replaced with one that counts correctly 00:47 I started trying to think of ways to do that, and eventually concluded that it'd be better to split the one defensive stat into two 00:47 you already did that with AC 00:48 aosdict: what do they defend against? 00:48 what does what defend against? the separate stats? 00:50 yes 00:51 the general idea is that you have one stat used in the calculation of whether you get hit (usually called evasiveness or Ev), and one stat for damage reduction when you do get hit (AC). 00:52 This allows for things like wearing heavy armor being very good for AC but bad for evasiveness, since you can't dodge as nimbly. 00:52 that's getting into D&D4E realm 00:53 AC and reflex (2 of the 4 defenses) 00:54 Except it doesn't come straight from your Dex and Cha, or whatever stats it uses. 00:54 dex and int 00:54 that could be interesting 01:02 IMO variable evasion systems are very hard to design well 01:03 oh I know, I've been designing one 01:03 that doesn't necessarily make them bad but you have much less flexibility with hte numbers than you'd htink 01:03 (this says a lot about NetHack, really, which is entirely based on variable evasion until you reach AC -1) 01:24 -!- ais523 has quit [] 01:33 [slex] Yuring (Pok Dro Fem Neu), 2112 points, T:3007, quit 01:38 -!- LarienTelrunya has joined #hardfought 01:48 -!- raisse has joined #hardfought 01:48 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v raisse] by ChanServ 01:50 is this the end of days or what lol 01:51 3 hurricanes at same time, massive wildfires on US west coast, and now just a few min ago a magnitude 8.0 earthquake off coast of southern mexico 01:51 3 hurricanes are not unheard of. 01:51 correction, 4 01:51 What's the fourth? 01:52 Irma, Katie, Jose... and? 01:52 harvey 01:52 well that one has come and gone but still 01:52 Well, that's not hurricane any more. 01:53 But yeah, can't get any rest. 01:53 At least Irma doesn't look like hitting Texas again. 01:53 nope it's dead set on florida 01:54 jose is somewhat following irma 01:54 Yeah. 01:55 Though is expected to steer clear of Fl. 01:55 it'll hit some of the islands hit by irma but is expected to turn north before hit puerto rico 01:55 *hitting 01:56 katia is headed right for the area that just felt that mag 8 earthquake 01:56 but its a weak storm relatively speaking 01:56 mag 8 where? 01:56 http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/08/americas/earthquake-hits-off-the-coast-of-southern-mexico/index.html?adkey=bn 01:57 in the pacific about 75 miles out 01:57 dang 01:58 hope they dont get a tsunami 01:58 Near Mexico City... 01:58 now all we need is yellowstone to erupt. that should do it 01:59 And we have elections soon and our version of Berlusconi looks like gaining majority. 01:59 I've never been so depressed like recently. 01:59 :/ 01:59 World is going to crap. 01:59 it'll get worse before it gets better 01:59 but it will get better 02:01 But the worst is that things like truth, fact, reality, honesty, honor etc. don't count any more. 02:01 That's what gives me creeps. 02:09 s - [ a blessed +4 pair of dragonhide water walking boots of speed and power and dexterity (being worn) 02:09 Wow. 02:09 i'm on a local copy of gh in wizmode 02:09 How'd you get that? 02:09 Aha. 02:09 i didnt think it would let me stack that many properties 02:10 q - = a blessed ring of free action and reflection and searching 02:10 So wizmode wishes. 02:11 yup 02:11 just testing a few things, seeing whats possible 02:13 u - a blessed rustproof +9 ring of protection and reflection and searching and stealth. 02:13 i dont think you can do that in regular game, stack that many properties 02:13 -!- zombifier has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:13 i think the limit is 2, and that's rare 02:14 You can only get one. 02:14 From wishing unless you're very lucky and the game generates additional property for you. 02:14 yeah that 02:15 on the very ultra rare occasion, i saw a random spawn item with two properties 02:15 it was elven boots of speed and fumbling or something 02:15 Hehe. 02:15 i remember not using them because of an undesireable property 02:41 does the fact that it's dragonhide do anything for you? 02:42 LarienTelrunya, can you get a blessed +4 pair of dragonhide water walking boots of speed and power and dexterity in slashem extended? 02:42 dragonhide water walking boots of (one of those properties) would be possible 02:42 dragonhide adds quite a bit to AC and it's already fooproof 02:43 however, in slex it would require the randomized appearance of water walking boots to randomly be one that's made of dragonhide, and that's not always the case 02:43 do you have enchanted rings in slex? 02:43 nope, only armor pieces 02:43 and it's strictly "either the item has one property or it has none" 02:44 and they cannot be wished for; however, scrolls of armor specialization are wishable and will add a random property to an armor that doesn't have one 02:51 [slex] Yuring (Pok Dro Fem Neu), 1103 points, T:1939, killed by a monster (leprechotta) 03:05 K2: how frequently is https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/slex-scores/ getting updated? 03:05 ah 03:05 i need to update it to reflect 2.0.5 03:05 same for gh 0.2.2 03:05 oops 03:06 my slex 2.0.2 game in which I died recently also isn't on the list yet 03:06 what was your score? 03:06 the list will only show top 250 03:07 oh wait 03:07 nvm 03:07 i know why 03:07 #177 has a score of only 103, so I'd certainly have been on the list 03:08 [20:54] <+Beholder> [slex] AmyBSOD (Fai Tum Mal Neu), 44071 points, T:5510, killed by a monster (Undead Kchief), while paralyzed by a monster attack 03:08 would be #22 on the current list :) 03:12 yup give me a min need to edit the script that supplies data for scoreboard 03:12 i keep forgetting that i have to do this bit 03:14 also sorry for breaking saves so often, I'll wait longer before the next update-pestering this time ;) 03:15 its ok 03:15 so 03:15 did you change something with hybrid names again? 03:15 the field in the database is too short again 03:16 wtf? that should actually be unchanged... 03:16 why its not working right this moment 03:16 only thing I did was add a gamemode field? 03:16 maybe i didnt set it long enough 03:16 i am not grabbing anything from that field 03:16 whats the max length name for hybrid? 03:16 how many characters? 03:17 let me calculate it 03:17 1morning! 03:17 -1 03:17 currently, if someone is crazy enough to pick every possible hybrid race, hybridname will be 72 characters long 03:17 gdamn 03:17 ok 03:17 hi FIQ 03:19 ok there we go 03:19 and there's your game 03:20 shouldnt have that issue anymore 03:20 K2: I wanted to ask 03:20 hybrid field can now accept up to 72 char 03:21 how do you feel about hosting slex 03:21 cool, thanks! #25 now :) 03:21 fantastic 03:21 ^^ FIQ 03:21 :) 03:22 and the scoreboard even has https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/A/AmyBSOD/slex/dumplog/1502830867.slex.txt links! awesome! 03:23 you just now noticing that? ;) 03:24 yeah, didn't realize they were there earlier, I was always looking for dumplogs in the userdata folder 03:25 click on your username 03:26 and login (using dgl creds) 03:26 ah crap i lost track of time 03:26 i need to go to bed 03:26 see you all 03:26 good night and thanks for all the help! 03:27 anytime 03:27 you rock! :) 03:27 lol 03:29 are you sure K2 rocks 03:29 maybe he metals 03:30 would you be surprised if I told you that I often listen to heavy/death metal while playing slex? 03:30 nope 03:31 what do you listen to when programming it 03:31 usually nothing, since I need to concentrate so I don't screw up ;) 03:31 listening to music helps me when editing 03:31 I concentrate better with some nice music in the background 03:32 keeps me focused 03:32 and before you ask, I don't do drugs when I'm about to start coding stuff :P 03:32 usually van halen, but any hard 80's rock will do 03:32 in fact I don't do drugs at all 03:32 you dont need to 03:32 you have slex 03:32 :D 03:32 LarienTelrunya: are you sure about that 03:33 :P 03:33 https://nhqdb.alt.org/?1724 03:33 hahahah 03:33 well once I played slex while high from some 72 vol% alcohol, but that's the exception rather than the rule :P 03:34 you mean drunk 03:34 not high 03:34 lol 03:34 usually I never drink, but on the rare occasion that I do (maybe once per year?), it's some high volume stuff 03:34 [slex] Yuring (Pok Dro Fem Neu), 974 points, T:780, killed by a monster (wraith) 03:35 ah, yeah, drunk, although I still somehow felt elated 03:35 you should check this out sometime LarienTelrunya - https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/mydion/id957809600 03:36 hmm, I'm not familiar with apple's music store 03:36 that's my old band. half these songs suck but the other half are still really good (imo). you might like a couple of them 03:37 i cant remember if we're on spotify 03:37 yup we are still. cool 03:38 wow you're in a band? 03:38 i hadnt checked in forever 03:38 i was 03:38 back in the 90's 03:38 thats what i did for a living 03:38 was poor 03:38 like, really poor 03:38 but it was fun 03:38 for a time anyways 03:39 that band is how I got my nickname 'K2' in fact 03:41 and I guess it has something to do with the mountain that has the same name? 03:42 nope 03:42 there is a mountain called K2? 03:42 yup 03:42 how original 03:42 FIQ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2 03:43 our guitarist was named Keith, that's also my name. so to avoid confusion, our kboard player started calling me K2 and it stuck 03:44 heh 03:44 that was back in... '92? '93 maybe 03:44 cool :) 03:44 so now you'll forever be the 2nd 03:44 so when i started getting online i just used that 03:44 the clone 03:44 * K2 shrugs 03:45 well i was the newest member of the group so it made sense 03:46 band broke up in 1997, i havent played with another group since 03:48 lol on amazon too... damn 03:50 ok bed for real 03:50 gnite 03:57 night 04:26 -!- elenmirie has joined #hardfought 04:26 -!- mode/#hardfought [+v elenmirie] by ChanServ 04:31 jonadab: when I was at uni, an organisation I belonged to had a room in a very old building. The lock would always stick but you could get it open by jiggling a credit card (or more likely, a student ID card) around where the latch was. 04:31 So the credit card thing always made sense to me :D 04:35 haha 04:39 @K2 │ FIQ! obj properties and materials are the same thing! 04:39 not true 04:39 and you know that 04:39 ;) 04:39 ais523 │ FIQ: I haven't received it 04:39 what 04:39 was I annoying enough that they put me on an ignore list or lol 04:40 !tell ais523 are you saying that you didn't actually receive this? https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/DevTeam#Github_PRs_.2B_3.6.0_statuscolors 04:40 Will do, FIQ! 04:42 FIQ: ais asked about H6006 on the mailing list and at least one member already answered that they didn't receive it either. 04:42 !tell ais523 as for the silver handling issues... I suggest consolidating the touch_petrifies checks and the silver checks. The former is more likely to be correct considering how long it has been around. Basically something like touch_object(). For stoning, instapetrify. For silver, deal damage, drop it, or whatever 04:42 Will do, FIQ! 04:42 FIQ: the one before that, H5990 was received by me 04:43 bhaak: Hm 04:43 So some things are not going through? 04:44 seems so 04:45 Well, that would explain why several of my earlier mails seem to have been completely ignored... 04:45 but the guy who's in charge of the support form hasn't answered yet, so we don't know if something broke or just got stuck in the spam list 04:45 [nd] elenmirie (Mon Hum Mal Neu), 12123 points, T:4743, killed by a gnome king 04:46 what about this one https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:FIQ/DevTeam#Wand_of_teleportation_quirks_in_muse 04:46 bhaak: ahh 04:46 bhaak: do you know why I started documenting my mails to the DT? this was part of the reason :) 04:46 I had the feeling some of them were getting stuck somewhere 04:46 I just checked it, all but the last one got through 04:47 Also I wanted to see how many I've been sending just so I don't end up flooding the DT unintentionally 04:47 Ah, ok 04:47 it's also good for non devteam variant developers :) 04:47 that's why we started https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bugs_in_NetHack_3.4.3/Reports#Unnumbered_bugs back in the day :) 04:48 ah 04:48 you might want to link your list from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bugs_in_NetHack_3.6.0 04:49 ah 04:53 bhaak: hmm maybe I should move my nethack.org reports to that list directly 04:54 that way there is no reason for people to make their personal articlees with their reports unless they send mail directly 04:55 -!- noty has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.9] 04:59 FIQ: it's a long list. put the summary there with a link to the whole report? 05:12 bhaak: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bugs_in_NetHack_3.6.0#Bugs_not_mentioned_on_the_DevTeam.27s_website 05:12 does this look ok? 05:17 yeah 05:25 [slex] BSOD2 (Kur Trp Fem Law) killed the invisible Akane, on T:115 05:27 [slex] BSOD2 (Kur Trp Fem Law), 804 points, T:373, killed by a monster (invisible grid xorn), while being clawed 05:30 [slex] BSOD2 (Pri Bor Fem Cha), 124 points, T:15, killed by a killer bee 05:32 !tell k2 I just pushed an update to Beholder to forward slex announcements to FCCBot, per Elronnd's request earlier today. 05:32 Will do, Tangles! 05:33 -!- Crawldragon has joined #hardfought 05:41 K2: you should host acehack on hdf, so you can make the ascension list on https://scoreboard.xd.cm/ only list hdf :P 05:42 !tell K2 you should host acehack on hdf, so you can make the ascension list on https://scoreboard.xd.cm/ only list hdf :P 05:42 Will do, FIQ! 05:44 I should get around to ascending one of the variants sometime. 05:45 Crawldragon: ascend grunthack! *bundlebundlebundle* :) 05:45 LarienTelrunya: why are you sometimes confusing grunthack and slex 05:45 I'm not drunk enough to go anywhere near that game again 05:46 hahaha 05:46 what happened 05:46 that made you feel that way 05:46 I found out that the zombies respawn in Grunt 05:46 It was funny at first but there were a lot of zombies 05:46 ahh 05:46 FIQ: it's intentional, since everyone expects me to only shill slex and I consider grunt one of the best non-slex variants, so I sometimes try to *bundlebundlebundle* players into playing grunt instead :D 05:46 but why not dnethack 05:47 which iirc is your favorite variant 05:47 well it's IMHO the best one, but grunt has interesting zombies early on 05:47 Amy's definition of "interesting" is "annoys Crawldragon" 05:48 at least it doesn't have the feature where if you lose alignment you might as ewll #quit 05:48 courtesy of 4k 05:48 and grunt has no elder priest and no wand destruction patch :P 05:48 wand destruction patch is great 05:48 and no "unskilled weapons suck" "feature" like the un/spork/dyna triad 05:48 a destroyed wand a day keeps you on your toes ;) 05:49 seriously though, I added a bunch of ways to protect against that already 05:49 B-) 05:50 LarienTelrunya: and unlike some other variants 05:50 yeah but the ring of shock resistance means you cannot wear both free action and conflict at the same time, both of which are also essential! and without the resistance, the wand destruction patch will make you lose the rings entirely and then you're screwed! 05:50 with the right precautions, you can keep scrolls or potions in the open for more than 5 seconds in Gehennom 05:50 without them being destroyed 05:50 shock res object property 05:50 I feel like I'm observing two evil masterminds argue over what the best way would be to destroy the world 05:50 or at least London 05:50 blue dragon scale mail (which also grants extrinsic speed) 05:51 what's the deal with giving certain DSMs several innate properties??? 05:51 also grant protection 05:51 to balance them? 05:51 dnethack has MDSMs that grant speed, which seems pretty balanced to me :D 05:51 it doesn't anymore 05:51 ...what??? 05:51 now blue DSM grants speed instead 05:51 what does mercurial do then? 05:52 they grant the vanish intrinsic 05:52 where it can make one disappear from the game 05:52 unfortunately it also hit themselves 05:52 what? you mean you disconnect from the server by putting on? 05:52 so they're no more 05:52 ... 05:52 no it was a silly way of me to say "they no longer exist" 05:53 yeah but that's an obvious regression, slex would never remove things that are working fine :P 05:53 LarienTelrunya: but anyway 05:53 so you have 3 ways to get extrinsic shock res in fiqhack 05:53 so the mercurial dragons themselves also have the vanish intrinsic? :( 05:53 which will protect your wands 05:53 plenty of ways IMO 05:54 Crawldragon: clearly the best way is to make monsters read genocide 05:54 and allow anything to be genocided 05:54 ;) 05:54 Crawldragon: fun fact 05:55 LarienTelrunya: complained about her eyes being destroyed because fiqhack's colored text was hard to read 05:55 so just for that I added an option to disable the text colors 05:55 she never used it 05:55 and continued to complain 05:56 the disabling option does not help, I don't remember why 05:56 did you even try 05:56 Maybe you just have your terminal colors set up weird 05:56 I quite like FIQHack's weird color pallettes, actually. 05:57 okay, just entered a game in FIQhack on hdf, where I probably have the default scheme now and it's "omg are you using the guild of optometrists as your partner? you make people need glasses with your variant and gain 20% of the profit the optometrists make that way"? 05:57 well 05:57 it's not default 05:57 what is the option to turn it off again? 05:57 msgcolor 05:58 ... seriously dude 05:58 why does that look so wrong to me 05:58 what 05:58 what is wrong 05:58 there's gotta be something inherently bad about this color scheme compared to vanilla 3.4.3 05:58 It's not fleecey enough. 05:58 but I can't say what 05:58 ??? 05:59 the pallet setting defaults to "don't fuck up people's pallet" 05:59 * LarienTelrunya fires up a 3.4.3 game to compare 05:59 it is literally the same 05:59 LarienTelrunya: What telnet client do you normally use to play NetHack with? 05:59 Crawldragon: putty 05:59 Do you play locally? 05:59 LarienTelrunya: also I guess you're aware of classic_status 05:59 FIQ: ah, so the fact that older messages become "black on black background" is what's extremely irritating to me 05:59 for a 3.4.3 status bar 06:00 you mean darkgray? 06:00 yeah 06:00 That's fairly standard 06:00 Crawldragon: sometimes, yes, but for that I use cmder with a custom color scheme 06:00 turn off darkgray just for a moment 06:00 I want to test something 06:00 try it 06:00 say if it looks better or not 06:00 urgh NOPE 06:00 with darkgray it's infinitely much better 06:00 now do something 06:01 dark blue is literally the WORST color 06:01 that gives a new message 06:01 ok 06:01 so this is bad you say? 06:01 yeah sure the new message is gray, but the old one... urgh... 06:01 LarienTelrunya: and you run Windows on your PC, don't you? 06:01 fun fact: this is the exact same color scheme as dynahack has 06:01 and you didn't complain with that 06:01 I'd rather have older messages get removed entirely, than showing them in an eye-straining, much too dark color 06:01 Crawldragon: yes 06:01 so clearly you just want to complain on fiqhack ;) 06:02 LarienTelrunya: try setting your "pallette" option to "Windows terminal" 06:02 I'm not sure if that will give you the subtle difference you want, but it's worth a shot. 06:02 dynahack has another problem, it requires UTF8 to display correctly (no other variant does that) 06:02 LarienTelrunya: either way 06:02 remember to reset the darkgray option 06:02 as for the message color thing 06:02