00:04 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 1000 points, T:2381, poisoned by a rabid rat 00:43 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Aphrodite, on T:14677 (4:05:07) 00:46 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) made her first wish - "2 blessed scrolls of charging", on T:14765 (4:08:31) 01:50 [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Dwa Mal Law), 2182 points, T:8906, killed by a hobgoblin 01:51 <@fubaz> !lastgame 01:51 @fubaz: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/d/dedal/evilhack/dumplog/1722210418.evil.html :: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/f/fubaz/evilhack/dumplog/1722225894.evil.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/o/ocnda/evilhack/dumplog/1722215663.evil.html 01:59 -!- Elenmirie has joined #evilhack 02:40 -!- malor has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46 -!- arahael has quit [Changing host] 02:46 -!- arahael has joined #evilhack 03:38 -!- Umbire has joined #evilhack 04:47 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 04:48 -!- Elenmirie_ has joined #evilhack 04:52 -!- Elenmirie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08 -!- malor has joined #evilhack 05:13 -!- malor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 05:30 -!- malor has joined #evilhack 05:38 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 06:13 -!- Umbire has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:53 -!- krm26 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53 -!- krm26 has joined #evilhack 06:55 -!- Elenmirie_ has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 07:04 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:6726 (0:21:34) 07:07 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) performed his first genocide (disenchanters), on T:7687 (0:24:29) 07:13 -!- Noisytoot has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:15 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) polymorphed his first object, on T:8710 (0:32:06) 07:21 -!- Noisytoot has joined #evilhack 07:25 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:9743 (0:42:08) 07:25 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed] 07:36 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 8701 points, T:11046, killed by Mr. Lechaim; the shopkeeper, while sleeping 07:38 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack 07:53 -!- hackemslashem has joined #evilhack 08:02 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) killed the Goblin King, on T:5050 (0:37:37) 08:02 -!- Elenmirie_ has joined #evilhack 08:07 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu), 5510 points, T:5571, poisoned by an orcish arrow 08:45 [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu), 56130 points, T:17530, killed by a drow cleric 09:31 -!- hackemslashem has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:48 -!- Elenmirie has joined #evilhack 09:51 -!- hackemslashem has joined #evilhack 09:51 -!- Elenmirie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:54 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3396 (0:11:04) 10:00 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4453 (0:17:56) 10:03 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2450 points, T:4636, killed by a giant mimic 10:15 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 10:31 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:3219 (0:16:02) 10:34 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4122 (0:18:48) 10:38 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu), 139 points, T:834, killed by an exploding large box 10:39 -!- Loveaabb has joined #evilhack 10:44 -!- Elenmirie has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 10:45 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) became literate by reading a scroll, on T:7315 (0:30:01) 10:45 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1456 (0:07:48) 10:57 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) changed form for the first time, becoming an Uruk-hai, on T:53375 (14:02:04) 10:58 -!- Loveaabb has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59 [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu), 1854 points, T:3952, killed by a mountain dwarf 11:02 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:53855 (14:07:11) 11:10 i took off the eyes of overworld for ONE turn so i could put on towel and see with telepathy (i don't know det. monster spell yet) and i got zapped with polymorph 11:10 then I tried to put it back on and got zapped again, lost all my armor, then my stuff got cursed and i didn't notice so i hit with my (cursed) pick axe 11:11 all within a handful of turns lol 11:11 fortunately the dragonbane resists that shit 11:12 i'm sure the castle wand will be 0:1 if i get to it 11:15 i'm on a 4-streak for 0:1 wands 11:15 of course one of those times it didnt matter because a monster got it first :-) 11:16 oh haha i thought that only happened to me! 11:27 0:3 thank god 11:27 as far as artiwishing goes... it goes by successful artiwishes right? 11:27 like I've MADE 2 but the second one slipped through my hands 11:28 but like #conduct says I've made two artiwishes 11:28 I hope it doesn't go by that... 11:28 although it would make sense why when ya strike out you continue to 11:28 no, any artiwishes, successful or not 11:28 which is how i've spent 7 wishes getting 1 artifact 11:29 oh fuck that 11:29 why would it be like that? 11:29 that's on purpose coded that way? 11:29 on purpose indeed 11:29 it makes no sense 11:30 ive stopped ever wishing for a 2nd artifact unless im just trying to waste wishes (like got a wand in a bones, etc) 11:30 so not only are you losing wishes, you're less likely each time you try... 11:30 sweet logic 11:30 not getting your wish is the wish engine telling you to pack it up 11:30 a "wish until first failure" strategy is fairly sound 11:31 but what that means is you only have one guaranteed wish artifact 11:31 seriously the dumbeset thing i've ever heard related to this game 11:31 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed Medusa, on T:39274 (9:01:16) 11:31 and now i understand why i wasted all those wishes 11:31 it didn't make sense to me 11:31 how clever... 11:31 so if you are banking on making purity as neutral without putting on a helm, you know what your first wish must be 11:31 i bet he fucked up the coding and just kept it that way 11:32 no, definitely intentional, and not that unreasonable i think 11:32 well it's a little late for that 11:32 it makes zero sense 11:32 was it your idea? 11:32 although, there is an argument to be made that all that does is encourage people to do more altar tricks 11:32 me? im ambivalent, dont mind either way 11:33 it makes ZERO sense 11:33 the only purpose >1 artifact wish really serves is to do forging stuff, and forging is all just fun-but-unnecessary stuff anyway 11:33 don't you feel like a sucker wasting all those wishes? i used to wonder why you were doing it 11:33 so on the one hand, dont restrict it, let people have fun 11:33 on the other, restrictions are fine, because it doesnt really matter 11:33 i knew something was wrong last game when i didn' get it 11:34 stop saying it doesn't matter... it should make sense 11:34 I mean, it's his game. But it's just not only counterintuitive, but after understanding to rule like I did 5 minutes ago, I don't understand how it makes sense 11:34 yeah well one of my first evilhack games was disconnected at a wish prompt that i lost, so i have a longstanding tradition of losing wishes 11:34 it hasnt bothered me for years 11:35 i Just wish I had understood the rules 11:35 I thought it was great when it got rid of the stuff you found on the floor or in bones counting 11:36 so why count the fialed attempts? 11:36 just as a FUCK YOU? 11:36 and I guarantee most people don't understand the rule. I play all the time and just realized it 11:37 i bet it was coded wrong and he just kept it 11:37 i wouldnt get so worked up about it :-) 11:37 i'm not worked up 11:37 i guarantee it is not coded wrong 11:37 i'm glad i undestand 11:37 as we all know, k2 is perfect in all things and never makes any mistakes 11:37 i mean, originally/// 11:37 yeah excactly 11:37 NOT IN COMPARISON TO HIS MITRE MISTAKE THAT ASSHOLE 11:38 ahem 11:38 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed +2 grayswandir", on T:54532 (14:33:04) 11:39 I had to defeat Nortle the Curator... 11:39 but phew 11:40 but like the conducts say i've made 3 wishes all for artifacts... I mean, even that is misleading 11:40 I WISH i had 3 artifacts i wished for 11:40 my biggest current complaints/wishes about evilhack: (1) priest edged weapon gifts, (2) unique #chat feedback for all potential pets, (3) improved mitre, (4) single ui action to swap between 2h weapon + dual wield, (5) shortcut through first wizard tower level 11:41 i.e. other than k2's irrational hatred of and cruelty towards priests, i'm quite content 11:44 brb 11:44 -!- rebatela has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46 -!- Frozty has quit [Quit: Client closed] 11:55 [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Dro Fem Cha) killed Croesus, on T:33968 (6:27:54) 11:55 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack 11:56 YANI priests are allowed to hit with edged weapons if they have a negative enchantment, because those have a dull ("lacking sharpness of edge or point") blade. 11:56 Artifact edged weapons given to a priest by their god are always -7 and cursed. 11:56 ^ K2 11:57 it's supposed to be that way 11:57 and will never change! muahahha 11:58 i like the idea of fixing 2 of my complaints at once: when you sacrifice wearing the mitre the gods know you are a'forgin and will give you edged results too 12:05 sometimes i wonder if the purity mittens are worth ti 12:05 iuut 12:05 it 12:06 i kinda want to do ice queen first maybe just so i keep the acid resistance with dragonbane? 12:06 i could just wear apron. that's what i usually do but i'll probablyt wish for a dragonhide one 12:08 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +5 dragonhide t-shirt of drain resistance", on T:54922 (14:51:51) 12:08 krm26 with the mitre my idea would be that it protects your head against the undead (alhoon, zombies) 12:09 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 oilskin cloth elven helm", on T:54926 (14:52:33) 12:12 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided black dragons, on T:54942 (14:55:10) 12:15 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) used a forge to create the Gauntlets of Purity, on T:55312 (14:58:56) 12:17 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide speed boots", on T:55315 (15:00:04) 12:20 -!- Elenmirie has joined #evilhack 12:21 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:42215 (9:51:33) 12:21 [hdf-eu] [evil] dedal (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 2347 points, T:9593, killed by the Goblin King 12:33 krm26, #'s 1, 3-5 arent happening (and mitre was already improved) 12:33 #2 sounds like a SMOP 12:33 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Croesus, on T:55887 (15:15:05) 12:34 #4 sounds like a huge MOP 12:35 [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided antimatter vortices, on T:55903 (15:16:46) 12:35 #5 there already is a shortcut, (RNG willing) 12:36 i love you but that shortcut is meh in both the shortness and the probability 12:36 more cutting! 12:37 wizards tower revamp was not meant to be a cake walk 12:37 #1 and 4, hard no - never happen 12:39 if something is broken, yeah i'll make some changes. but I'm not making changes just because it's too hard. this isnt unnethack <--- bhaak :P 12:39 why the strong feelings on 4? i understand not doing it because of smopiness, but it is mostly a ui improvement that would make people more likely to use bows and crossbows aas missile weapons 12:39 [hdf-us] [evil] elron (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:43694 (10:09:49) 12:40 #4 is easymode 12:40 i mean, to be clear - i don't expect 4 to ever be done, but i also would expect most people to be "yeah, that would be a nice ui fix" 12:40 and didnt you mean 0 turn? it already takes time to switch 12:40 no, i meant normal switch turn consumption 12:41 oh i see 12:41 i read the wrong 12:41 well, i phrased it lazily 12:41 ok so, there's already a single key proess to go from dual wield to single wield and vice versa 12:41 *press 12:41 right 12:41 but im thinking of the ranger case: bow to dual wield and back 12:41 so you want same for 2handers to dual wield 12:42 or maybe 2h to sword and board and back 12:42 sure 12:42 it is mainly an error-reducer 12:42 dont forget to rewield your offhand kinda thing 12:42 hmm 12:43 to me, that fits in the samish category as paranoid water 12:44 especially when people end up doing crap really fast, like we all do, there is a rich source of potential error in that kind of weapon manipulation. sure, it is "one kind of difficulty", but i dont think of that as the good kind 12:44 as i said, i have always had 0% expectation for that 12:44 but i still think it would be good :-) 12:56 oh no. did you nerf the tower ? 12:56 krm26 i dont even know how to do #4, i'd have to look into it 12:56 no one nerfed anything rebatela 12:56 sweet 12:56 can you go back to where you don't get penalize for wishes you didn't get? 12:57 it is a difficult design problem k2 before it even becomes a difficult smop 12:57 There's no point in nerfing features that you can just remove from the game. 12:58 rebatela the old way is the more artifacts that exist, the less chance of getting another one 12:58 i dont see anything wrong with current system 12:59 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha), 32027 points, T:10502, quit 12:59 it should only be for the artifacts you wished for and GOT 13:00 nope 13:01 i agree with k2, nope, and immediate implementation of edged weapon gifts for priests. yay k2! 13:01 you coded it wrong and now you're somehow talking yourself into it being right 13:01 its from xnethack 13:02 explain why the chances should get less despite the player not getting an artifact 13:03 "its from xnethack" doesn't count... Because HE probably coded it wrong and then thought it was just dandy because he's anti arti-wishing 13:03 he didnt code anything wrong either 13:03 that's the trade off from the old system. otherwise you could have a glut of artifacts and that can be unbalancing 13:03 you cant just say people coded something wrong because they coded something you dont like 13:03 rude 13:03 its not wrong rebatela 13:03 but why should it get less and less even though you've gotten nothing? 13:03 I don't care all that much. 13:03 i just explained why 13:04 no you didn't 13:04 * K2 shrugs 13:04 since you dont care all that much, i'm peeling away fromt he topic 13:04 i just won't play the game like the rest of the world :: shrugs :: 13:04 well you refused to explain 13:04 there are several possible curves leading to fewer and fewer wishes artifacts: 1) always get em, 2) 1/n per received, 3) 1/n per wished -- 3) has been chosen, BUT they revoked penalty for unwished artifacts 13:04 been fuzzing evilhack a lot last few days, trying to catch any unfound crash bugs before official release 13:04 which will be this week 13:05 so it was originally 1) wish penalties for any generated artifact, now 3) where only wished count 13:05 been consistiently getting past 40 million turns 13:05 With asan too? 13:05 no 13:05 40 million! soon you will have fuzzing as long as my games 13:05 the record for eh is 124 mil turns 13:05 aw, asan ftw 13:05 i hit 108 mil the other day 13:06 some crashes i've recorded are strange, as in not possible in a normal game 13:06 somehow the fuzzer made the player poly into an archon and when it used its gaze attack, crash 13:06 player can only use gaze attack from pyrolisk and umber hulk 13:06 Sometimes I do think things can get corrupted after a certain point, I've seen that too 13:07 "krm26> you cant just say people coded something wrong because they coded something you dont like" -- you know damn well i could be right... 13:07 Explain how it makes sense that you should get less chance with each wish? Other than to just be like haha fuck you 13:07 (which is fine)( 13:07 other one i saw, somehow a rock was made into a different material (not stone to flesh) 13:07 but it doesn't make any sense 13:07 makes perfect sense to penalize by opportunity, just a matter of opinion or desired frequency 13:07 what? 13:08 and ive looked at the specific patch when k2 incorporated it and it doesnt look at all like any potential mistake was made 13:08 the outstanding one i am working on is a couple cases where maybe_unhide_at should be called but isnt (and vanilla 3.7 might want the same attention) 13:09 I'd entertain the 'only-actual-received-artiwishes-count' thing, for scieeeeence 13:09 Uh, lemme check, I know I've seen flesh stones before... 13:10 K2: But I thought a lot of that went away when you fixed some of the invalid material wish panics 13:10 yeah it did 13:10 until the other day i had never seen that type of crash 13:12 https://github.com/elunna/hackem/issues/81, but I never solved it 13:13 <@loggers_viii> it’s silly that wishing for an artifact and not getting it decreases the chance. I’m not sure how that makes sense 13:14 it produces the desired outcome of fewer average wished for artifacts 13:14 <@loggers_viii> you’d usually have to spend a lot of wishes to get more than even 2 artifacts I think 13:14 because nananana boo hoo that's why 13:14 (not MY desire, but the desire of the patch author) 13:14 i'm glad I KNOW at least now 13:14 I wasted a ton of wishes and ultimately quit my last game after a zillion turns 13:14 now i just won't play 13:15 <@loggers_viii> ouch 13:15 ive failed to get a 2nd wished artifact in more than a few games, throwing every available wish after it. thems the breaks 13:15 rebatela ok 13:15 i only have to beat my head into a brick wall 7 times to learn a lesson, so now i wish for 1 artifact and stop :-) 13:15 yeah i get that was probably the goal, k2. well done 13:15 unless im drowning in wishes 13:16 <@loggers_viii> I see the concern as “players could get too many artifacts without a zillion wishes”, I just don’t necessarily believe it would be much of an issue 13:16 <@loggers_viii> wishes for non artifacts are generally more optimal anyway 13:16 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:3200 (0:16:59) 13:16 why should the chances get less when you DON'T even get the artifact? the chances are less than the time before? 13:17 i should do what dnh does, you cant wish for any quest artifact 13:17 not that you need to in that game 13:17 now that artifact wish behavior interacts with forging in interesting ways, often making you choose between two forged artifacts when you want both of them 13:17 at least that makes sens 13:17 e 13:17 rebatela the way wishing is implemented is to help preserve balance, not to spite you personally 13:17 oh are you gonna change the rules now out of spite? "I should do what xxx does" . Like you're threatening? lol 13:18 ok 13:18 but how does it make sense to penalize someone who didn't even get the wish? they already lost the wishj 13:18 It's HUGE losing the wish and having it slip through your hands. in ANY variant 13:18 you know, k2, sometimes a djinni should poof up next to you, say "rebatela" (or some other player from bones) "wished for that, thx, bye!" and yank one of your artifacts :-) 13:18 as stated, i already explained why. if you dont like the explanation, i cant help you 13:18 that would be HYSTERICAL 13:18 heh 13:19 of course it would increase the value of forged artifacts, since they would not be yankable 13:19 <@loggers_viii> I don’t really think the balance defense is valid, but whatever 13:20 its valid 13:20 <@loggers_viii> I think you’re underestimating the value of a lost wish and overestimating the value of an artifact 13:21 if this were vanilla nethack or some variants, you'd be correct 13:21 <@loggers_viii> to be clear, the LOST value of losing a wish. losing a wish is not valuable lol 13:21 if that it true loggers why are you wishing for artifacts? you are implying they are more valuable than the artifacts you get 13:21 just wish for markers or whatev 13:21 forged artifacts are extremely powerful, if that wish restriction went away, it would make evry future game a lot easier 13:21 <@loggers_viii> it’s almost like that’s literally how I play the game krm26 13:22 so everyone's happy! 13:22 i think my next game im gonna play something neutral, collect the helms, and get every single non-quest artifact for giggles 13:22 <@loggers_viii> nah cuz the wishing thing is unintuitive and silly 13:22 sir, this is wendys 13:23 that sounds like a job for a neutral wizard 13:23 sir, that arby's joke was old in 1998 13:24 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) eschewed atheism, by dropping 11 darts on an altar, on T:4006 (0:24:26) 13:24 Everything is valid. Every bug is a feature 13:24 I'm glad it was taken from another variant without much thought. Makes sense 13:25 rebatela, throw your tantrum elsewhere 13:25 <@loggers_viii> you are not helping 13:25 <@loggers_viii> (to rebatela) 13:25 why the "without much thought" dig, come on man 13:26 k2 demonstrates like every day in this very channel how thoughtful he is about all evilhack development except for giving me what i want for priests because hes just a bit of an ass but otherwise wait ive lost my train of thought 13:26 <@loggers_viii> I’m almost certain k2 has thought about all of this at some point. It comes up every once in a while 13:27 <@loggers_viii> which raises the question of why I’m arguing about it to him tbh :p 13:27 a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single well-placed bribe 13:28 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had a pair of low boots entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:4220 (0:28:57) 13:28 i honestly meant it as a backhanded compliment. I don't think it makes any sense so maybe he implemented it without thinking it through. Wasn't trying to insult anyone. Now that i have a problem with it, it will NEVER be changed. I DO have a sort of victim mentality on here and i'm sorry 13:29 <@loggers_viii> K2 how much cash to make the artifact wish chance not go down when you don’t get the wish 13:29 but when you guys told me it came from another variant and he kept it, it made sense 13:29 I didn't mean it liek he didn't give it thought in a bad way... I just d on't get how anyone would think that's a good rule 13:30 if you want to ban arti-wishing, do it 13:30 but why should your chances get less and less as you're losing wishes and not getting it? 13:30 and it wasn't explained 13:30 and I'm not throwing a tantrum 13:31 <@loggers_viii> it was explained. he thinks it would result in too many artifacts for a given character 13:31 Was this the original variant/maker of the rule's thoughts? 13:31 yes, it is a half step between your two opposite poles, makes sense if you dont like either pole 13:32 yeah, it was done in xnethack as part of the "dont penalize for preexisting artifacts" change, as i recall -- to balance that out 13:32 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had a pair of copper gauntlets of power entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:4446 (0:32:33) 13:32 i'm sorry, but the chances getting less and less as you LOSE wishes (THAT'S the real loss here, you lose a wish each time) doesn't make any sense to me 13:32 and he coded it wrong lol 13:33 losing the wish as it slips through your hand is the penalty... 13:33 it really doesn't matter. I can tell where i'm not wanted. 13:33 love y'all 13:33 good luck 13:33 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:33 in practical terms, I just flip a coin for the second arti-wish and if I don't get it, oh well, maybe next game. 13:33 lol just when he left 13:34 it seems to shake out like this every time doesnt it 13:34 <@loggers_viii> who could have seen that coming 13:34 the era of polite political discourse is long dead 13:37 ah well 13:38 i am now in scanning document hell 13:38 scansnap baby 13:39 <@loggers_viii> tangentially related but why is changing priests to allow them to somehow get edged artifacts a ‘hard no’? 13:39 his deep hatred for me 13:40 or maybe he's just afraid i'll start cutting myself again if he lets me get edged gifts 13:40 <@loggers_viii> pfft 13:40 my feelings are it doesnt matter much but it seems like the only real effect of not making some mechanism for that is limiting priest forging fun, when many people already dont find priests that fun to play 13:41 i've already explained this one too, but it was awhile ago so: priests are not supposed to use edged weapons, it pisses off their deity if they do. therefore it makes no sense for their deity to then gift them an edged *anything* 13:41 <@loggers_viii> that reminds me, you ought to be able to ‘F’ight yourself with ‘F .’ or something 13:41 but you are helping your god melt down the edged artifact into something non-edged! 13:41 the gods should love that! if that is gonna be our justification :-) 13:42 "here! make sure to turn this into some nice gloves!" 13:42 they could come "dulled" :-) 13:42 krm26 i told you the other day i'd look into recipes for next ver 13:42 I suggested above that negatively enchanted weapons are dull 13:42 i think that'll be tough -- because of the preponderance of edged artifacts 13:43 a dull knife can still cut mobileuser. ask me how i know that :) 13:43 well, the gods already know you wont be USING the edged stuff. i mean, you cant, as a priest 13:43 =D 13:43 i appreciate the ideas 13:43 "melted lump that used to be grayswandir" 13:44 onyl usable in recipes :-) 13:44 On the pro side, you can name sting/ocrist/etc without penalty 13:44 that's just a way of ordering elves for lunch 13:44 <@loggers_viii> maybe priests could have alternate forging recipes for some artifacts? like mjollnir+demonbane = hotdog or something 13:45 elf hotdogs, hmmm 13:45 that wouldn't make sense loggers. hotdog clearly gets powers from sunsword 13:46 <@loggers_viii> failing that, adding some obscure way to reliably summon an archon to get sunsword would be cool 13:46 <@loggers_viii> mobileuser strange magicks or whatever :) 13:46 dnh has this thing where some artifacts can have multiple appearances 13:47 never mind, "sword" is pretty much in the name :-) 13:47 i've only scanned a dozen docs and i am already over it 13:47 bleh 13:48 oh hey all, what are your thoughts on splitting up the wishes found in the castle? 13:48 that would be cool 13:48 limits the damage a monster can do with your wand too 13:48 <@loggers_viii> I think it’s really fun in xnh and would probably also be really fun in evilhack 13:48 make wands of wishing unrechargeable totally and have two? 13:49 make them 0:2 and have 3? 13:49 that kinda thing? 13:49 yeah sort of 13:49 xnh splits up the wishes fromt he castle wand into 5-6 different places i think 13:49 castle/vlad/final demon prince, something like that? 13:49 yeah 13:49 i think that would be pretty cool 13:49 i havent decided on where and how many 13:50 but yes i agree i think that'd be neat 13:50 im not a huge fan of the hit castle -- all gear complete syndrome anyway 13:50 so mitigating that would be +++ 13:50 i would stop complaining about priests for three (3) months 13:50 it would be even BETTER if the wish locations were not guaranteed -- i.e. 9 possible locations, 6 of them will have wishes 13:51 or 4-6 to keep the # of wishes random 13:51 <@loggers_viii> that’s what xnh does 13:51 ^ oooh neat 13:51 hmm 13:51 MAYBE first wish at castle guaranteed, rest randomized 13:51 <@loggers_viii> 6 wishes, possible locations all of the archfiends, and Vlad I think 13:51 different locales talking to one another, that's prob some lua fuckery 13:51 <@loggers_viii> yeah, the first wish ought to be guaranteed castle 13:51 dunno if i can get that sexy on 3.6 based code 13:51 you could do the probability like the artifact wish probability kinda 13:53 <@loggers_viii> chance for a wand 100%, second wand 50%, third wand 33%, if you miss one the chance of getting the next one lowers :P 13:53 you could also make a permutation list and randomly place wands/nothing in it, then draw from that list for each location 13:53 would invalidate saves 13:54 yeah none of this idea would go into existing version, even if it didnt break saves, it changes the game significantly 13:54 woah 13:54 my input: I dislike it :-) 13:55 there's always one! 13:55 welp... mobileuser said yuk. cant do it 13:55 no doubt I won't be the only one ;-) 13:55 no not yuk... its CRAAAAP 13:55 gehennom is scary, I like my wishes at the castle 13:55 <@loggers_viii> it would be a substantial difficulty increase considering the danger of evilhack’s late game 13:56 <@loggers_viii> I think evilhack is actually so hard later that the massive power spike at the castle is pretty balanced and this could fuck with that 13:56 would create a more goal oriented game during that portion of the game 13:56 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) had 18 shuriken entrusted to him by Huan Ti, on T:6861 (0:56:23) 13:56 sanctum/purgatory is prob the most dangerous part of the game 13:57 although it would also depend on how many wishes at the castle, it's not like I use all of them immediately 13:57 or at all 13:57 <@loggers_viii> sanctum and astral I’d say are evil’s hardest levels 13:57 well I always use them :-) 13:57 some 13:57 <@loggers_viii> it’s really easy to die in purgatory but once you do it a few times you stop slipping up 13:58 from the times i've made it that far in a real game, i've felt that the first level of purgatory was harder than astral 13:58 purgatory can still bite you in the ass, and the first level is definitely one of the most dangerous places if you tackle it improperly 13:58 <@loggers_viii> also, take players like me! I use all the wishes right away and then still have a rough time in Gehennom lol 13:58 :P 13:58 heheh 13:59 im afraid to do anything in the first level of purgatory but run+tp 13:59 [hdf-us] [evil] DragonSidedD (Mon Hum Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7241 (0:59:16) 13:59 <@loggers_viii> first purg level is easy as long as you don’t fight anything 13:59 <@loggers_viii> the second one gives me a little trouble what with the celestial dragons and saint michael 14:00 i have a dramatic idea for increasing evilhack difficulty 14:00 very simple and very dramatic 14:00 <@loggers_viii> how dramatic we talking 14:00 monsters use their mr to resist wand of teleportation 14:00 hah 14:01 <@loggers_viii> I hate it 14:01 a super-minor version of that which i think is very defensible is monsters which teleport (arch-lichs etc) can decide whether they want to ignore teleport away 14:01 which means you could give some stuff on astral rings of teleport control 14:01 so it wouldnt be EVERYTHING, but it might be that annoying player rogue in astral 14:01 <@loggers_viii> uber powerful player monsters suck to fight and aren’t fun at all. teleporting them away is good 14:02 the most fun i ever have in evilhack is surviving rare and horrible complications 14:02 <@loggers_viii> they’re just a stat check that you never win unless you spend 200k turns eating rings or something 14:02