00:03 <bouquet> sloppyfirsts: oh ya, thanks for reminding me.
00:04 <bouquet> this is clearly the anti-bouquet taming rule. I usually load up with a few dozen dragon pets.
00:05 <sloppyfirsts> i was thinking it was the further movement of the Anti-Pacifist League.
00:06 <sloppyfirsts> (and yeah, I like a decent amount of pets myself)
00:06 <sloppyfirsts> also nerfs the Purple Reign ending
00:07 <Umbire> That was nerfed long ago with slow digestion rings
00:08 <sloppyfirsts> what? is everyone wearing them on Astral?
00:11 <bouquet> pretty much :(
00:11 <bouquet> woolly rain is the new thing
00:12 <bouquet> K2: new force bolt strategy... position L near lava. Knock back. Vaporize.
00:36 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) completed Sokoban, acquiring a bag of holding, on T:12439 (5:46:13)
01:17 <sloppyfirsts> every f'in time.   every time! go through all the damned effort of forging barding and within 100 turns I either find a mount with barding on it, or find it in a shop or on the ground.
01:17 <sloppyfirsts> One time I found a warg without a rider wearing spiked barding and a saddle.
01:18 <sloppyfirsts> another, again shortly after forging, a wandering riderless warhorse with barding of reflection and a saddle.
01:18 <sloppyfirsts> another couple/few times it was in the Minetown tool shop.
01:19 <sloppyfirsts> seems it is in the damn coding:
01:19 <sloppyfirsts> if{forge}|barding;then:spawn_mon.mount[barding]
01:20 <sloppyfirsts> and it happned again just now.
01:20 <sloppyfirsts> Oh well; next mount/dragon whatever is protected.
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01:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of reflection, on T:77712 (23:38:06)
01:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) changed form for the first time, becoming a rock troll, on T:7166 (1:28:53)
01:53 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:7378 (1:30:19)
02:07 -!- Umbire has quit [Killed (erbium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
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02:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) had Cleaver bestowed upon him by Set, on T:9592 (1:46:43)
02:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) made his first wish - "blessed +2 dragonhide cloak of magic resistance", on T:10075 (1:50:27)
02:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) wished for "blessed +2 dragonhide bracers of decay", on T:10077 (1:51:05)
02:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 422 points, T:2103, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted large mimic
02:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:2201 (0:17:33)
02:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) had a copper helmet entrusted to him by Set, on T:10803 (1:53:27)
02:18 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) had a scimitar entrusted to him by Set, on T:11214 (1:55:13)
02:23 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) was chosen to steal souls for the Glory of Set, on T:14040 (2:00:23)
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02:35 <mobileuser> !tell bouquet have you tried zapping cancellation at the ice trap?
02:35 <Hecubus> Will do, mobileuser!
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03:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3928 (0:51:02)
03:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) changed form for the first time, becoming a vampire royal, on T:15901 (7:27:36)
03:18 -!- sloppyfirsts has quit [Quit: Client closed]
03:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) murdered Hurja, her faithful large spider, on T:26458 (6:16:12)
03:29 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha) hit with a wielded weapon for the first time, on T:4340 (2:59:29)
03:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2863 points, T:6038, killed by a black pudding
03:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 3638 points, T:5045, killed by a soldier ant, while fainted from lack of food
03:38 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 255 points, T:501, killed by a rock gnome, while sleeping off a magical draught
03:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k3ut0i (Kni Dra Fem Cha) averted death (killed by Kathryn the Ice Queen), on T:37675 (18:27:38)
03:43 <k3ut0i> Ice queen has displacement?
03:44 <k3ut0i> does she wear dragon-scaled armor...
03:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 102 points, T:603, killed by a black pudding
03:46 <Umbire> Cloak can either be MR or displacement
03:47 <k3ut0i> was this changed recently, i don't remember ice queen having displacement before
03:50 <mobileuser> then you've always been lucky before :-)
03:51 <k3ut0i> I went in half-cocked with a lance and had my ass handed to me... :(
04:03 -!- mobileuser has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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04:10 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu), 73812 points, T:28246, killed by a shambling horror, while praying
04:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k3ut0i (Kni Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed +3 dragonhide speed boots", on T:37696 (18:57:47)
04:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Arahael (Wiz Ith Fem Cha), 922 points, T:1878, killed by a sea tortle
04:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k3ut0i (Kni Dra Fem Cha) defeated the invisible Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:38044 (19:07:18)
04:27 -!- mobileuser has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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04:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Merrywidow (Inf Dra Mal Una) had Trollsbane bestowed upon him by Moloch, on T:91674 (2 days, 6:30:10)
04:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Bar Dra Mal Cha) entered the Hidden Dungeon, on T:43847 (21:51:58)
04:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Merrywidow (Inf Dra Mal Una), 1796010 points, T:92024, petrified by a basilisk, while attempting to cheat Death
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04:56 <Umbire> Couple o' real bad ones
04:56 <Umbire> !lastgame 
04:56 <Hecubus> Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/M/Merrywidow/evilhack/dumplog/1716667545.evil.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/l/lacca/evilhack/dumplog/1717712622.evil.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/A/Arahael/evilhack/dumplog/1717747050.evil.html
04:56 <Umbire> !lastgame Koeranen
04:56 <Hecubus> Umbire: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/K/Koeranen/evilhack/dumplog/1717520650.evil.html
04:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Bar Dra Mal Cha) killed Tal'Gath, on T:44014 (22:03:07)
04:57 <Umbire> was Merry's deliberate SD or extreme inattentiveness?
04:57 <Umbire> hm
04:59 <mobileuser> oof
05:01 <mobileuser> looks like they got caught out while doing stash chores
05:02 <mobileuser> Thank you Hecubus for telling me Tal'Gath is dead, he seemed to just suddenly disappear...
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05:21 <mobileuser> oh doh, illness of course
05:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) changed form for the first time by mimicking a pile of gold, on T:6078 (1:04:17)
05:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Gollum, on T:7265 (1:23:07)
06:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:6764 (1:55:23)
06:20 <rld> <@fubaz> Does anything happen if you free the humanoid prisoners in goblin town that are cordoned off by using a potion of acid, etc?  Other than the elf corpses for intrinsic
06:23 <Umbire> they wander about, elves can fight off other orcs p. decently
06:30 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Bar Dra Mal Cha) killed Cerberus, on T:44313 (22:36:48)
06:36 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
06:40 -!- xdminsy has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
06:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:8437 (2:26:43)
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06:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Bar Dra Mal Cha) entered Gehennom, on T:44329 (22:38:49)
06:43 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Bar Dra Mal Cha) genocided beholders, on T:44387 (22:40:43)
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07:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 6503 points, T:8441, killed by an orcish watchman
07:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Nyri (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:4635 (0:40:31)
07:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Nyri (Wiz Ith Mal Cha), 3058 points, T:4722, killed by a hallucinogen-distorted warg
07:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) genocided shocking spheres, on T:83370 (1 day, 0:36:19)
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08:06 <K2> bouquet yesssss
08:06 <K2> !who
08:06 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] dbanethacker [evil] :: [hdf-eu] No current players :: [hdf-au] krm26 [evil]
08:09 <krm26> so weird entering kas's level to 4 friendly arch liches
08:09 <krm26> maybe kas likes me too!
08:10 <K2> he wont
08:11 <krm26> unfortunately, the master liches like teleporting next to me, and i'm swinging dichotomy
08:11 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 6 commits to master [+0/-0/±16] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/1ae6efdc6b39...29c3347c2019
08:11 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 29c3347 - Merge pull request #178 from k21971/random-stuff
08:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) destroyed dbanethacker's ghost, the former Woman-at-arms, on T:25711 (8:08:37)
08:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu), 41 points, T:330, killed by a water elemental
08:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Koeranen (Ran Elf Fem Neu) chose an elven dagger to be named "Sting", on T:1145 (0:03:33)
08:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) destroyed Kas, on T:84566 (1 day, 1:12:35)
08:23 <krm26> man i wish 20 str was enough to dual-wield 2h weapons :-)
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08:28 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 2 commits to master [+0/-0/±5] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/29c3347c2019...98cdc0679cfd
08:28 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 db2cf71 - Minor formatting tweaks to last PR.
08:28 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 98cdc06 - Fix: peaceful underline glyph not clearing for shopkeepers when rile_shk() routine was called.
08:29 <K2> krm26 did you see the video I linked yesterday? about what rivian announced?
08:30 <krm26> no sir
08:32 <K2> so yesterday, rivian officially released info on the R1 series refresh
08:33 <K2> over 500 improvements/changes to the 2025 R1T/R1S
08:33 <mobileuser> "Count corpses left by zombies for draugr same-race sacrifice" \o/
08:33 <K2> calling it '2nd generation R1 series'
08:33 <K2> mobileuser yeah this will go live soon
08:33 <mobileuser> noice
08:33 <krm26> watching
08:34 <K2> krm26: and jerryrig was able to get their hands on a 2nd gen and test it
08:34 <K2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyf_Vp9Hhno
08:34 <K2> the software improvements will make their way to current R1 series
08:34 <K2> but DAMN the hardware updates... *drool*
08:34 <mobileuser> man, I'm still trundling through Vecna 1 and you've already killed Kas
08:35 <mobileuser> looking forward to using the sword of kas
08:35 <K2> the nature of one of the fixes, I shouldnt update with people playing
08:35 <K2> !who
08:35 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] Koeranen [evil] dbanethacker [evil] :: [hdf-eu] No current players :: [hdf-au] krm26 [evil]
08:35 <krm26> im dumping skill into 2h sword now, so i will have to play with cursed amnesia and relearning everything :-P
08:35 <krm26> want me out k2?
08:36 <K2> in about one min, yes please
08:37 <mobileuser> I want to unlock more skill points by leveling up, but with Dagul next to me I couldn't do the usual wraith farming
08:37 <K2> ok krm26 save please
08:37 <K2> !whodat
08:37 <K2> awww
08:37 <K2> !who
08:37 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] Koeranen [evil] dbanethacker [evil] :: [hdf-eu] No current players :: [hdf-au] krm26 [evil]
08:37 <krm26> out
08:37 <K2> and patched, you can resume
08:38 <K2> eu and au servers updated
08:38 <K2> just need us
08:38 <krm26> so what this video is telling me is there were 500 things wrong with the r1 2 years ago that you're stuck with :-)
08:38 <K2> lol NO
08:38 <K2> i love my 2023 r1t
08:38 <mobileuser> heh, only now notice you're on au
08:39 <mobileuser> got another game running on us?
08:39 <krm26> i gotta be, i have my revived run on us and apparently the best possible start for a tourist ever on europe from like 2 years ago
08:40 <K2> us server patched yay
08:40 <mobileuser> ah, that no-more-dragonbane one
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08:40 <K2> dbanethacker thanks
08:40 <K2> you can resume, game is patched
08:40 <dbanethacker> Anytime
08:40 <dbanethacker> Glad you could put them in !
08:40 <K2> \o/
08:41 <K2> yeah one of the fixes, need to be sure no one playing before patching
08:41 <krm26> i should probably scale my armor before doing vecna
08:43 <K2> krm26 - over 1000 hp, over 1100 ft lbs torque. 0 to 60 in 2.5 sec
08:43 <krm26> no way, 1000 is over max possible hp
08:43 <K2> smaller battery pack that holds more juice
08:44 <K2> heh
08:44 <K2> horse power
08:44 <krm26> what i want is 0 charge to full charge in 1 minute because the batteries are switched to a giant supercapacitor
08:45 <K2> i read a report about a couple of the EV auto makers in chna, they've developed a battery that can go from 10% to nearly full in 10 min
08:45 <K2> and has a range of over 600 miles
08:45 <K2> will start seeing it in the wild in about 4-5 yrs
08:45 <K2> *china
08:46 <krm26> i'm still waffling a bit between electric and phev (for additional hurricane-proofing)...although i have a whole house generator so can charge an electric car off of propane
08:46 <K2> you get a ton of sun down there - get solar and some powerwalls
08:47 <K2> i've directly charged my truck from the panels before
08:47 <K2> and top off from the powerwalls all the time
08:47 <krm26> heh, for florida ac solar has a hard row to hoe...which is why i went propane
08:47 <K2> :/
08:47 <K2> you need to just gtfo of FL
08:48 <krm26> that, and if i wanted panels i probably need to replace my roof first for another 80-100k
08:48 <krm26> yes, 5 more years and the wife hits full vesting at disney
08:48 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
08:48 <K2> if i lived in FL i wouldnt put anything into an existing house, not with the state of homeowners insurance down there
08:48 <krm26> 4 more years and the daughter graduates from what passes for the school system here
08:48 <K2> ahhh
08:48 <krm26> i almost self-insured this year, but managed to dig up some crapo insurer of last resort
08:49 <K2> so once those 2 things hit, nothing keeping you in FL
08:49 <krm26> we found some nice places in the scottish highlands last week
08:49 <K2> i bet
08:49 <K2> did you link up with mobileuser? offer to wash dishes?
08:50 <mobileuser> never saw him :-P
08:50 <K2> aww
08:50 <krm26> in the wrong places! i was in galway/dublin/edinburgh/edinburgh-to-inverness/skye
08:50 -!- dbanethacker27 has joined #evilhack
08:50 <mobileuser> skye was the closest
08:50 <mobileuser> I live near Oban
08:50 <krm26> wife had planned to drive the whole trip to let me relax, which lasted through 3 near-collisions in the first 15 minutes out of the airport
08:50 <K2> i'm still bummed i cant go to worldcon this year
08:51 <krm26> i drove a little towards oban to go see the faerie bridge! close as i came
08:51 <krm26> wife wants a pet highland coo now
08:52 <K2> lol
08:52 <K2> my wife wants a minature cow
08:52 <K2> upside - never have to mow again. downside - everything else
08:53 <K2> !who
08:53 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] dbanethacker [evil] :: [hdf-eu] No current players :: [hdf-au] krm26 [evil]
08:54 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
08:55 <dbanethacker27> I'm at about turn 27k and haven't seen an altar yet.  Found 2 non-aligned temples, 1 in goblin town.  Just found a magic lamp.  I have decent armor, and amulets of flying / magical breathing and reflection.  dragonhide cloak of magic resistance.  Think I should wish for Mjollnir?  I just can't find an altar yet and am on the Quest now.
08:56 <mobileuser> convert the one in orc town?
08:56 <dbanethacker27> So also yes, no holy water in the game yet, nor can I make any w/o an altar (sob), unless there's another way?
08:56 <dbanethacker27> Not Orc Town - it's the normal gnomish mines one i meant to say.
08:56 <mobileuser> kill the priest :-)
08:56 <dbanethacker27> Yeah - that's a possibility.
08:57 <K2> heh
08:57 <mobileuser> but that's bad luck, how far in the dungeon did you go?
08:58 <dbanethacker27> So that would take care of getting Mojo.  The quest is on level 15
08:58 <dbanethacker27> that's as deep as I've been so far.
08:59 <dbanethacker27> (not as deep ever - I've been down to level 35 or so a long time back.  Today's game is only as deep as level 15)
08:59 <dbanethacker27> I also have a helm of speed
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09:00 <krm26> alright, +7 sword of kas at expert, vecna will be next
09:06 <K2> \o/
09:11 -!- k3ut0i has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
09:15 <dbanethacker27> My inability to make holy water is no fun.
09:16 <K2> !whereis dbanethacker
09:16 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] dbanethacker [evil]: (Val Hum Fem Neu) T:27132 The Quest level: 20
09:16 <K2> you'll find some
09:18 <krm26> you could confuse some up
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09:23 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) killed Lord Surtur, on T:27386 (9:01:43)
09:23 <dbanethacker27> confuse some up?
09:23 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:27389 (9:02:17)
09:23 <mobileuser> blessed scroll of remove curse, read while confused
09:24 <K2> ^ I always forget that trick
09:24 <mobileuser> randomly curses and blessed items in inventory
09:24 <mobileuser> * blesses
09:24 <dbanethacker27> never did that - do you suddenly have holy water in your possession then?  Or do you need to have it in your inventory?
09:25 <mobileuser> it's an awkprocedure
09:25 <mobileuser> bleh
09:25 <mobileuser> awkward procedure
09:25 <dbanethacker27> hmmm, how awkward (yuk, yuk)
09:25 <mobileuser> you need to split a stack of water into individual entries
09:26 <mobileuser> drop everything else in inventory
09:26 <dbanethacker27> Oh, and here I thought you were referring to the awk command.  My Unix / Linux background is showing....
09:26 <mobileuser> then read blessed scroll of remove curse
09:26 <dbanethacker27> Ah, I see.  Great suggestion!
09:26 <dbanethacker27> Now, if i can just figure out how to bless a ? of remove curse without holy water.....
09:27 <mobileuser> some potions will then be blessed, some cursed, some uncursed
09:27 <mobileuser> yeah that's the rub :-)
09:27 <krm26> just use some holy water!
09:27 <dbanethacker27> Good tip to remember.  I'll use it if I can find the right blessed scroll.
09:27 <krm26> you can also sit around and wait for a @priest to generate :-)
09:27 <mobileuser> was just going to say that
09:28 <dbanethacker27> Sorry you missed my prior post - no altars yet and I'm at level 15.  Just finished the quest.
09:28 <dbanethacker27> so no holy water and no way to make it except for Mobileusers's good suggestion.
09:28 <mobileuser> krm26 means a player monster priest
09:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] hanran24 (Mon Cen Fem Cha) destroyed lacca's ghost, the former Heretic, on T:2313 (0:23:47)
09:28 <mobileuser> not a temple priest
09:29 <dbanethacker27> I have 2 non-aligned temple priests available.
09:29 <mobileuser> no, not those
09:29 <krm26> Frodo the hobbit priest
09:29 <mobileuser> the yellow player monsters
09:29 <mobileuser> they always have holy water
09:29 <dbanethacker27> I'll ask Bilbo for directions, perhaps.
09:30 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
09:30 <K2> :)
09:30 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack
09:31 <dbanethacker27> Ya gotta love fire ants on the quest level.  They drop all kinds of things.  Just got a potion of gain ability, go figure.
09:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] dbanethacker (Val Hum Fem Neu) completed her quest without incident, on T:27626 (9:11:39)
09:33 <dbanethacker27> what incidents could you have, I wonder?
09:34 <krm26> i had one, the incident of having to butcher Pelias
09:36 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
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09:39 <dbanethacker> I've had it where my quest leader wanted me to give him/her Gjallar.  I wasn't sure what I did to deserve that.
09:40 <krm26> that is an incident
09:40 <krm26> usually it is accidentally poking a peaceful monster + bad luck
09:40 <krm26> sometimes it is eating all the same-race shopkeepers
09:40 <krm26> i mean, we've all been there
09:41 <krm26> k2, does vecna's gaze do anything to draugr?
09:42 -!- dbanethacker27 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
09:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) destroyed Vecna, on T:86469 (1 day, 2:35:20)
09:46 <krm26> that message needs to report eye/hand :-)
09:46 <krm26> (eye for me, which means soa)
09:47 <dbanethacker> holy shit - I picked up a potion of holy water on the quest!  I'm in business !!
09:48 <nabru> yay
09:48 <krm26> grats dbanethacker!
09:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) genocided gray dragons, on T:86629 (1 day, 2:40:08)
09:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] klepto (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1303 points, T:1594, killed by a bear trap
09:52 -!- rebatela has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:52 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack
09:56 -!- rebatela has joined #evilhack
10:01 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] klepto (Val Hum Fem Neu), 884 points, T:2297, killed by a large spider, while fainted from lack of food
10:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) used a forge to create The Sword of Annihilation, on T:87800 (1 day, 2:55:44)
10:11 <krm26> i forget, does soa evaporate due to overenchantment?
10:12 <K2> it shouldnt
10:12 <krm26> mmm
10:12 <krm26> not the most emphatic response :-)
10:12 <K2> 'and because of its nature, is indestructible.'
10:12 <krm26> guess i will give it a go
10:12 <mobileuser> but once at +6, it won't go higher I think
10:13 <krm26> you seem correct mobileuser
10:13 -!- bgt32 has joined #evilhack
10:13 -!- bgt32 is now known as k3ut0i
10:13 <mobileuser> I tried that with hand of vecna
10:13 <mobileuser> didn't work
10:13 <mobileuser> oh and the first time it evaporated because of a bug :-)
10:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] klepto (Val Hum Fem Neu), 753 points, T:1861, killed by a mountain dwarf
10:14 <krm26> alright, think i might be ready to burn some wishes
10:14 <krm26> i wonder if i should do the chaotic purity thing
10:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide cloak of protection", on T:88009 (1 day, 3:07:35)
10:19 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide speed boots", on T:88012 (1 day, 3:09:26)
10:20 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) genocided basilisks, on T:88020 (1 day, 3:10:39)
10:21 -!- stenno has joined #evilhack
10:22 -!- dbanethacker has quit [Quit: Client closed]
10:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide elven helm of fire", on T:88022 (1 day, 3:12:47)
10:23 <mobileuser> you can also wish for dragonhide bracers of fire btw
10:23 <krm26> omigod i totally forgot about bracers
10:23 <mobileuser> oops, sorry, should have mentioned earlier
10:24 <krm26> my -68ac should be fine tho
10:24 <mobileuser> dragonhide bracers of excellence for style points
10:24 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Con Dro Fem Cha), 354 points, T:3858, killed by a flint stone
10:24 <xdminsy> I hate hobbit :(
10:25 <xdminsy> You already have of esp?
10:25 <krm26> t-shirt
10:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] klepto (Val Hum Fem Neu), 1508 points, T:2114, killed by a sea tortle
10:30 <krm26> ...why am i immune to petrification...
10:32 <mobileuser> sword of kas
10:32 <mobileuser> but only on wield
10:32 <mobileuser> bbl
10:32 <krm26> wasnt wielding it
10:32 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
10:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k3ut0i (Kni Dra Fem Cha) entered the Hidden Dungeon, on T:38966 (21:15:57)
10:34 <Umbire> yellow scales?
10:34 <krm26> nope
10:35 <krm26> i *had* wielded kas previously but was not currently -- nothing else going on except draugr
10:36 <krm26> i guess i might have had kas in inventory, but thought its stoning resistance was on wield
10:38 <krm26> ahh, spellbook confusion doesnt work how i thought...guess draugr have to pack potions of confusion for trap detection
10:40 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed the Abominable Snowman, on T:57431 (14:19:07)
10:41 <K2> sword of kas grants stone res on wield only
10:42 <K2> so if you still have it and you arent wielding it, you have it from some other source
10:42 <K2> just tested to make sure
10:42 <krm26> i cant check a second time, just had a pot, no wand...will investigate it further if possible
10:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k3ut0i (Kni Dra Fem Cha) killed Tal'Gath, on T:39302 (21:30:51)
10:49 <k3ut0i> My ki-rin some how died to a falling rock trap?!
10:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) defeated Kathryn the Ice Queen, on T:57817 (14:30:31)
10:54 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k3ut0i (Kni Dra Fem Cha) performed her first genocide (two random monsters from class e), on T:39371 (21:37:25)
10:54 <k3ut0i> damnit I forgot about blessed genocide
10:56 <krm26> got rid of those awful gas spores huh :-)
10:57 <k3ut0i> flaming and freezing spheres are not genocidable, but acid and shocking spheres are genocidable?
10:57 <krm26> yeah
10:57 <krm26> because the first two can be produced by player spells
10:58 <k3ut0i> Well, atleast ring blasters are gone...
10:59 <xdminsy> heh.
11:05 <Umbire> clearly it is time for Skilled shocking grasp to create shocking spheres
11:08 <krm26> to convert gas spores into shocking spheres
11:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided antimatter vortices, on T:58458 (14:46:00)
11:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) genocided shocking spheres, on T:58499 (14:46:56)
11:24 -!- rebatela has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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11:34 <rebatela> oh sweet i learned burning hands!
11:34 <krm26> theres a cream for that
11:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed fixed magic lamp", on T:89001 (1 day, 4:32:29)
11:48 <krm26> wow 90k turns, polypiling with 6 wands of polymorph -- still not a single wand of cancellation this run
11:53 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed Juiblex, on T:89753 (1 day, 4:43:22)
12:00 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed Lolth, on T:90254 (1 day, 4:50:15)
12:00 <K2> krm26 lol
12:05 <krm26> damn another throne genocide, dont know what to do
12:05 <krm26> i guess i should do alhoons and crap since im likely to accidentally piss one off with dichotomy
12:05 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) genocided alhoons, on T:90474 (1 day, 4:55:58)
12:05 <rebatela> you just seem to have crazier luck than everyone else 
12:06 <krm26> i did just run through 20 smoky potions and was 0/19, but at least the 20th gave me back my magic lamp
12:06 <krm26> uh oh
12:06 <krm26> tinklbear yeenoghu bones
12:07 <krm26> hehe his ghost is peaceful
12:07 <rebatela> but you really think the same stuff doesn't happen to everyone else? 
12:08 <rebatela> i used to think the same way, and then realized it was absurd and i was just talking about it 
12:09 <krm26> i just like to whine
12:11 <rebatela> yeah but he actually listens to you and changes the rules lol 
12:11 <K2> who me?
12:11 <K2> hell nah
12:12 <krm26> k2 sometimes listens to me when i whine about things being too EASY
12:12 <K2> ^ this
12:12 <rebatela> yeah or like a strategy you don't use?
12:12 <krm26> i dont intend for any of my whines about difficulty to produce change :-)
12:12 <K2> heheh
12:12 <krm26> although this will be my first post-mammoth-nerf ascension, we'll see how much i cry
12:12 <rebatela> it's been going on forever. i don't care anymore 
12:13 <k3ut0i> wait mammoths are nerfed? woolly ones?
12:13 <krm26> a general taming nerf that effects mammoth strategy
12:13 <krm26> max tamed monsters = cha/...3? i think?
12:13 <K2> yes
12:14 <krm26> so for my draugr, my woolystorm will be size 2
12:14 <krm26> not as impressive as everything orange as far as the eye can see
12:14 <K2> so 8 is the most pets you can have at any one time (this doesnt count for your 'pets' generated by flaming/freezing sphere spells
12:14 <K2> )
12:14 <rebatela> i really like ludios can you put it on every vault? I don't have the patience to eat wraiths. can  you stop them generating so other people don't kite them? 
12:14 <krm26> that is a really good astral + taming solution
12:14 <K2> yup
12:15 <K2> dnethack has had that forever, terrapin came up with a more elegant solution
12:15 <K2> that basically does the same
12:15 <krm26> i feel like you are running stuff i say through a -> zemblan -> klingon -> zemblan > english translator rebatela
12:15 <rebatela> people play different ways 
12:15 <K2> lol
12:15 <rebatela> and i don't even bother making suggestions 
12:16 <krm26> ...ok
12:16 <K2> Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
12:16 <krm26> i mean, part of the bonus of k2 being in this channel is being able to discuss the variant
12:16 <krm26> it isnt just that he smells nice and brings us coffee
12:16 <k3ut0i> I remember discussions about a druid role... Is development on that ongoing. 
12:16 <K2> that's klingon for 'Perhaps today is a good day to die'
12:17 <K2> k3ut0i yes
12:17 <K2> some work was actually don
12:17 <K2> *done
12:17 <K2> a few months ago
12:17 <K2> and then real life got in the way
12:17 <K2> and then i quit my shit job
12:17 <krm26> k2 decided he liked the cold, clammy embrace of undeath more than dryads and bunnies
12:17 <K2> and now i'm motivated again. in a better place mentally
12:18 <rebatela> hey krm26, that thing we were talking about? it's a go... Yipee!! and it's often just something you don't do or something you do do. I was saying in the hdf channel there's a reason it was kind of kept secret who the dev team was.. and someone sarcstically said "is it really that secret?"  i'm talking pre-www... Maybe the people who play the game all the time shouldn't be making the rules... 
12:18 <K2> can we not have drama today
12:18 <k3ut0i> K2: looking forward to it, man. Thanks for the game again.
12:18 <rebatela> yeah i'm leaving
12:18 <rebatela> no drama 
12:18 <K2> k3ut0i thank you!
12:18 <K2> rebatela you dont have to leave
12:19 <krm26> yeah please dont leave
12:19 <rebatela> if you don't realize that certain people have your ears, I don't know what to tell you. It annoyed me 2 years ago, and I just laugh at it now 
12:19 <K2> everyone has my ears concerning evilhack
12:19 <krm26> dammit was wondering where that ear went
12:20 <K2> clean them please
12:20 <k3ut0i> Draugr can still tame pegasus using ?taming right? Lost my ki-rin(dont know how) and low on wishes :(
12:20 <K2> hahah 'ghltlh' is klingon for 'go fuck yourself'
12:21 <K2> k3ut0i yes but not by tossing food at it
12:21 <K2> it'll be wary
12:22 <K2> need teh magic
12:22 <Umbire> 50 magic save p. sure?
12:22 <Umbire> @e?pegasus
12:22 <Hecubus> pegasus (u) | Lvl: 18 | Diff: 20 | Spd: 24 | Res: sleep poison | Confer: nothing | MR: 50 | Gen: special | AC: -4 | Atk: 2d6 kick physical, 2d6 kick physical, 4d4 bite physical | Align: 0 | herbivore, flies, oviparous, regen, nopoly, infravis
12:22 <Umbire> ye
12:22 <K2> oh about the limit on pets - your steed also does not count
12:22 <K2> so if you ride a steed, you can still have 8 more other pets
12:22 <K2> max
12:26 <bouquet> heyo
12:26 <Hecubus> bouquet: Message from mobileuser at 2024-06-07 02:35 EDT: have you tried zapping cancellation at the ice trap?
12:26 <bouquet> K2: my most recent local build crashes when I #wizlevelport.
12:26 <K2> day-o
12:26 <K2> me say day, me say day, me say day-a-a-o
12:26 <K2> bouquet hmm
12:27 <bouquet> more like it freezes completely solid and can't be escaped
12:27 <bouquet> and rams my CPU to 100%
12:27 <K2> works fine on my machine
12:27 <krm26> k2, if you are mounted and at max pets, and unmount, what happens?
12:27 <K2> what level did you try to levelport to?
12:27 <bouquet> I'm sure it does.
12:28 <bouquet> votd
12:28 <K2> ok
12:28 <K2> lemme try that
12:28 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Geryon, on T:60561 (15:52:12)
12:28 <K2> krm26 good question
12:28 <bouquet> straight from dlvl1
12:28 <rebatela> oh sweet someone drop deathead a wand of death
12:28 <K2> i can levelport to the valley
12:29 <K2> no issues
12:29 <K2> lemme try another way
12:29 <bouquet> I can got 1->10, then 10->20, then if I try to go 1 more level it freezes
12:29 <K2> huh
12:29 <K2> no problems here
12:30 <K2> maybe make spotless, run setup.sh for the hints file you use, rebuild
12:30 <K2> i'm assuming you're using linux
12:30 <bouquet> did that
12:30 <K2> hmm
12:30 <bouquet> yes linux
12:30 <K2> well wtf
12:31 <bouquet> I use linux-debug
12:31 <K2> yeah same
12:31 <K2> what OS
12:31 <bouquet> fedora 39
12:31 <K2> not sure how different fedora is vs ubuntu
12:31 <bouquet> not very. Mostly just different packaging
12:32 <bouquet> lemme update my build environment
12:33 <K2> k
12:33 <bouquet> I have a dedicated build environment I use for building custom hardware drivers and nethack variants
12:33 <bouquet> so there's a lot of unrelated junk I sometimes can't change
12:33 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Mephistopheles, on T:60801 (15:57:55)
12:36 <krm26> this is going to end badly -- chasing yeen down through the dungeon as he burns through tinklebear's wands of digging
12:36 <K2> bouquet gotcha
12:37 <K2> been playing this game for over 2.5 days (wallclock) and i just now made it to dlvl 10
12:37 <K2> heh
12:39 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) wished for "uncursed magic marker", on T:61056 (16:03:19)
12:39 <rebatela>   ty throne
12:39 <bouquet> you deserve it! -Throne, probably
12:41 <K2> sweet, holy water
12:41 <K2> oh hello big room
12:42 <bouquet> is that a Fanta?
12:42 <K2> heh
12:42 <bouquet> what nethack needs is coffee.  A potion you can drink to temporarily increase speed and dex
12:43 <bouquet> but too much and you die
12:43 <krm26> yeen zips right through orcus's level, come ON
12:44 <rebatela> alright i DO like the change that when you try to escape a level with a boss (like by digging down) they follow
12:44 <rebatela> solid shit
12:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed Orcus, on T:91883 (1 day, 5:34:50)
12:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Orcus, on T:61153 (16:09:42)
12:45 <rebatela> later
12:46 <rebatela> but i love it.. i was forced to fight
12:46 <rebatela> good stuff 
12:46 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) genocided disenchanters, on T:92038 (1 day, 5:36:33)
12:46 <rebatela> oh fuck
12:46 <rebatela> and i ended up on graz't 
12:47 <rebatela> that's the klepto one?
12:47 <rebatela> motherfucker
12:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed the invisible Yeenoghu, on T:92224 (1 day, 5:39:19)
12:49 <K2> whew that was close
12:49 <K2> auto travelled right into a gelcube
12:51 <krm26> 6 levels but finally got yeen! wonder if he left anything on the wand of wishing
12:53 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Graz'zt, on T:61302 (16:17:06)
12:55 <rebatela> k2: you made this game a LOT harder. I love it
12:55 <rebatela> seriously.. it's super fun 
12:55 <bouquet> K2: well, I was able to teleport to votd, but it crashed as soon as I went down the stairs (after killing cerberus)
12:59 <rebatela> Does graz't just start with Dirge or was that random?
13:00 <K2> bouquet can you reproduce that?
13:00 <K2> rebatela - grazzt will have dirge if it doesnt already exist
13:01 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 920 points, T:2355, killed by a giant ant
13:01 <rebatela> oh sweet
13:01 <K2> bouquet and if you can reproduce that, run it in gdb so you can get a backtrace. or just look at the coredump if you're already setup for that
13:01 <K2> brb
13:01 <rebatela> i'm playing weaponless but can i arm a pet with it?
13:02 <K2> sure
13:02 <K2> brb for real
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13:05 <bouquet> it freezes solid so I don't think there's a coredump.  I have to kill the file. I run it in gdb
13:05 <rebatela> oh snap.. I forgot all about vlad
13:07 <rebatela> shit.. i forgot about master po...
13:08 <mobileuser> krm26 did you figure out my tin opener hint yet?
13:10 <mobileuser> back to opening boxes in vecna 1 while you have killed 10 more bosses in the meantime...
13:12 <xdminsy> Heh the DL 2 armor dealersihp gives me crystal plate mail + dragonhide gloves + speed boots :P
13:12 <rebatela> really sucks for him right now (master po)
13:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) refused to give up The Eyes of the Overworld to Master Po, on T:61688 (16:34:51)
13:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] rebatela (Mon Hum Mal Neu) killed Master Po, on T:61689 (16:34:58)
13:17 <mobileuser> nice one xdminsy
13:18 <xdminsy> Yes I decied to try something other than drow con, that always make me upset lol.
13:18 <xdminsy> Does Dirge deal 2x damage in evil?
13:21 <mobileuser> no, acid damage
13:21 <k3ut0i> flat acid damage
13:21 <k3ut0i> d12?
13:21 <k3ut0i> d10
13:21 <xdminsy> Sounds weak :P
13:22 <mobileuser> not too impressive, but not many monsters have acid res
13:22 <k3ut0i> very good for early game
13:23 <xdminsy> Early game? How to get it quickly.
13:23 <xdminsy> I think coaglined altar are pretty hard to get in evilhack.
13:23 <k3ut0i> also mithril +2 bonus 
13:23 <bouquet> drow knight gets it by same race sac
13:24 <xdminsy> I have a lawful altar, but I can't convert it until mid game I think.
13:25 <xdminsy> I'm playing a human chaotic knight.
13:25 <xdminsy> I think drow knight may need to care much about their bracers lol.
13:27 <xdminsy> I realize my pet is not regular horse until it grows into a cauchemar...
13:38 <mobileuser> all dark knights get it by same race sac while wielding a long sword
13:38 <mobileuser> human zombie corpses work too
13:46 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) killed the Goblin King, on T:4116 (1:07:33)
13:59 <krm26> mobileuser no sir i did not
14:01 <krm26> xdminsy, you can convert altars normally in evilhack. remember you may get an elemental or something in the face when you do
14:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) stole 400 zorkmids worth of merchandise from Angmagssalik's general store, on T:5071 (1:25:14)
14:04 <xdminsy> Oooops.
14:04 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) had a spear entrusted to him by Quetzalcoatl, on T:2447 (1:00:15)
14:05 <xdminsy> Heh I get it from my pet.
14:05 <xdminsy> So I should wait my pet to drop it..
14:05 <krm26> no, just wait until he is out of the shop
14:06 <xdminsy> Oookay I see.
14:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed the invisible Demogorgon, on T:92615 (1 day, 5:48:11)
14:06 <xdminsy> krm26 I have died to converting altars many times I think lol, a bit afraid of that.
14:09 <Umbire> you can take out the altar monsters at lower levels but you have to be proper wily about it
14:11 <xdminsy> Oh well maybe I could do that, it's a lawful altar and I can jump and very fast speed.
14:12 <xdminsy> Maybe later I think they may carry wands.
14:12 <Umbire> yeah you can kite the hell out of them circumstances/matchup permitting
14:17 <mobileuser> krm26 second hint: what happens when you apply a tin opener
14:19 <krm26> mannnn dont make me find a tin opener
14:19 <krm26> i guess i have a wish i could use
14:19 <mobileuser> lol
14:19 <mobileuser> you could also consult the wiki
14:19 <mobileuser> :-P
14:19 <krm26> will the punishment never end!
14:20 <xdminsy> What happens when you apply a tin opener?
14:20 <mobileuser> are you all kidding me
14:20 <xdminsy> Never have used it :P.
14:21 <Umbire> I'm not sure what you're hinting at either
14:21 <mobileuser> it... offers to open a tin?
14:21 <mobileuser> tin opener?
14:21 <Umbire> I know what a tin opener does but I lack context for whatever you're steering krm towards
14:21 <mobileuser> draugr Umbire
14:22 <mobileuser> that's the context
14:22 <Umbire> aha
14:22 <Umbire> hmmm
14:22 <krm26> i'm assuming it might ask you what brain to open but i'm hoping mobileuser's will will break and he'll tell me before i have to find out for myself
14:22 <krm26> it is the only thing i might be able to beat mobileuser at
14:22 <mobileuser> third hint:
14:23 <mobileuser> what is one of the food items that draugrs are not supposed to be able to eat
14:23 <Umbire> thought so
14:24 <mobileuser> phew, Umbire gets it
14:25 <Umbire> sleep pattern's off and I'm in the midst of a dnh game that just got interesting
14:25 <Umbire> :B
14:26 <mobileuser> what race/role are you playing?
14:26 <xdminsy> Can't get it :(
14:26 <xdminsy> It it hard to get into dnh?
14:28 <mobileuser> there is a lot of weird stuff in dnh, but you can ignore most of it
14:28 <xdminsy> Seems I cannot play 3.6.7 on hardfought, but I found that my nao has a wizard game started long ago.
14:29 <xdminsy> mobileuser can one ascend at first game :P
14:29 <mobileuser> 3.6.7 you mean?
14:29 <xdminsy> I mean one new to dnh.
14:30 <mobileuser> it's possible
14:30 <xdminsy> Is it easier than evilhack?
14:30 <mobileuser> do a barbarian, their first sac gift is really good
14:30 <mobileuser> malor says it is :-)
14:31 <xdminsy> Okay I may try at sometime, I think I could try some variants in junethack.
14:31 <xdminsy> I've only played evil and xnh :D.
14:31 <mobileuser> just ask some questions while playing dnh
14:31 <malor> I think the time for the my "official" difficulty rankings update has come.
14:31 <mobileuser> \o/
14:31 <malor> Dnh, by the way has gotten a LOT harder.
14:32 <mobileuser> ah, good to know
14:32 <xdminsy> Okay, I heard that they talk a lot in ##nethack-variants.
14:32 <mobileuser> yeah
14:32 <xdminsy> is dnh still being updated?
14:32 <xdminsy> Or you say ndnh?
14:32 <mobileuser> both!
14:32 <mobileuser> and now also nndnh
14:33 <rld> <@malorpower> I already had added NNdnh long ago 🙂
14:33 <rld> <@malorpower> These "official" rankings are an important part of nethack heritage 🙂
14:33 <rld> <@malorpower> Tier "E for "Evil"
14:33 <rld> <@malorpower> Evil
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Hackem
14:34 <xdminsy> malor so now dnh is harder than evilhack?
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Tier 1
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Grunt
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Splice
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Spork
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Tier 2
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> FIQ
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Slashem
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Un
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> SlashThem
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Tier 3
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> FourK
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> SlashDNH
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Dnh
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Tier "V for Vanilla"
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Ndnh
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> NNdnh
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Dyna
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> X
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> 3.6
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> 3.7
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> 3.4.3
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Gnoll
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Four
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> Ace
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> see above.
14:34 <K2> hackem isnt tier E, hackemslashem watered 1.2 down a fair amount
14:34 <rld> <@malorpower> what the heck.  Why is it copying to IRC so slowly?
14:35 <krm26> you need two rankings: informed rankings, and "no knowledge of variant but vanilla" rankings
14:35 <K2> to prevent the bot from being kicked for msg spam
14:35 <malor> Because "hackem" is mostly defunct I haven't re-evaluated it, but I will take your word for it.
14:35 <krm26> because i think the d*hack variants bump up in difficulty with no access to outside info
14:36 <malor> I moved "Hackem" to the 4th game in "Tier 1" now fyi.  So "Evil" is alone in the "E for Evil" tier.  Then Tier 1 (in order) is "Grunt, Splice, Sport, Hackem"
14:36 <malor> seem good K2?
14:36 <K2> sure
14:36 <krm26> and im not complaining, because i like the growth and change, but i think it is true that the evilhack of 2 years ago was more difficult than the evilhack of today. what do you think mobileuser?
14:36 <K2> is dnh still tier 3?
14:36 <K2> given how much harder it is now?
14:36 <K2> and you've already ascended 3.23.0 right malor?
14:37 <malor> yes, I would agree with that.  DNH moved up a TON.  In the ranking before this one it was in "Tier V" and "Dyna" was above it.  So "dnh" moved up to "tier 3", ndnh and nndnh moved above "dyna" but remained in tier "V".
14:38 <K2> ah i see
14:38 <Umbire> mobileuser, was between channels and game
14:38 <malor> I haven't ascended dnh in the new variant.  I have a game that is 99.9% likely to do so and I should be able to streak it pretty reasonably still, but *not as easily* :). And if I had 300 ascensions on any other of the EASIER variants I think I could do the same :)
14:38 <K2> heh
14:38 -!- mobileuser has quit [Quit: Client closed]
14:38 <xdminsy> malor so do you have ranking for recommending varaints?
14:39 <K2> malor you really need to play evilhack, make sure your E ranking is legit
14:39 <Umbire> !tell mobileuser blue Half-Dragon Cavewoman
14:39 <Hecubus> I'm on it, Umbire.
14:39 <krm26> evilhack for a long time was clearly wayyyyy ahead of any other variant in gui/usability, which is another really important metric.
14:40 -!- mobileuser has joined #evilhack
14:40 <mobileuser> .
14:40 <Hecubus> mobileuser: Message from Umbire at 2024-06-07 14:39 EDT: blue Half-Dragon Cavewoman
14:40 <mobileuser> nice
14:40 <K2> uh oh
14:40 <K2> what just happened to the discord roguelike server
14:40 <xdminsy> krm26 what makes evilhack in past harder than now?
14:40 <malor> No, I don't have a list for that.  But evilhack has always been the variant I have said was the best one.  Followed closely by dnh/ndnh/nndnh.  Gnollhack is also very close to the top but is a pretty big deviation from the norm that some don't appreciate.
14:40 <xdminsy> I've only played since 0.8.2 I think.
14:40 <rld> <@Umbyre (he/him)> Seems fine to me?
14:41 <K2> weird
14:41 <malor> My not playing Evilhack only proves how hard it is :). I literally shake in fear for days and can't please my wife when I even think about playing it :)
14:41 <krm26> xdminsy, although really cool the forging tier of artifacts does make things a tad easier in the endgame. that's not a knock, just the way it is
14:41 <K2> malor lol its just a game
14:41 <K2> its ok if you die :)
14:42 <k3ut0i> is dnh harder that ndnh and nndnh?
14:42 <K2> xdminsy also, early version of evilhack, the zombies were a bit much
14:42 <mobileuser> hackem is sooo tier E K2
14:42 <xdminsy> Lol malor I think you would be master of evilhack if you play.
14:42 <malor> dnh is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than ndnh/nndnh.  the "n" ones are very very close to exactly the same difficulty.
14:42 <mobileuser> try it K2 :-)
14:43 <K2> mobileuser i did
14:43 <K2> a lot of evilhack stuff was stripped
14:43 <xdminsy> I tried jedi before, the early game in hackem seems harder.
14:43 <K2> and his remake onto 3.7 was taking evilhack stuff out completely
14:43 <xdminsy> But then seems easier, but I parked a good game.
14:44 <malor> What makes ndnh/nndnh easier is that "Lokoban" is a single level with NO SPAWNS other than a passive bag that you can hit TO TRAIN YOUR WEAPON SKILLS.  And then it drops close to the same amount of treasure.  And secondly there is a level with the "Lady of Pain" that gives you a "branch port" item.  Those 2 things make ndnh/nndhn much easier.
14:44 <K2> but yeah overall hackem is a lot harder to win than vanilla
14:44 <mobileuser> the current version on hdf is really hard to ascend
14:45 <K2> there's a few crash bugs lurking around in hack'em still... wish hackemslashem hadnt just up and left
14:45 <K2> same with splicehack
14:45 <xdminsy> Wow great information to know malor.
14:45 <k3ut0i> malor: Yeah, the pinata makes things easier..
14:45 <krm26> hackemslashem left?
14:45 <K2> heh
14:45 <mobileuser> your deepest dungeon level was 8 K2 :-)
14:45 <K2> krm26 yeah where you been? :)
14:45 <krm26> i mean
14:46 <malor> It's really annoying that hackem went from such an up-and-coming variant to "some odd crazy changes" to "abandonware" :(
14:46 <xdminsy> 8 lol.
14:46 <krm26> plaaaces
14:46 <K2> mobileuser you stop looking at my game history
14:46 <mobileuser> :-P
14:46 <K2> stop it!
14:46 <K2> :P
14:46 <krm26> he ok at least? just get bored?
14:46 <K2> no idea
14:46 <K2> he deleted all his github repos, deleted his discord account, poof
14:46 <K2> gone
14:46 <K2> not a word
14:47 <xdminsy> Yes, left completely.
14:47 <k3ut0i> what hackem is abandoned?! It was pretty good...
14:47 <malor> My plan was to ramp up my courage to play Hackem and then gateway that into Evil.  But now I don't plan to ever play Hackem as it has known issues and the dev isn't around any more.
14:47 <mobileuser> yeah, it's a real shame
14:48 <xdminsy> So directly head into evil :)
14:48 <mobileuser> I had a solid year of fun with gackem
14:48 <K2> malor you have a ton of support here
14:48 <krm26> come on malor! evilllll
14:48 <mobileuser> * hackem
14:48 <K2> just do it
14:48 <K2> start off with a valk centaur
14:48 <krm26> evil isnt that bad, even a senile idiot like me eventually managed to ascend it
14:48 <K2> yeah
14:48 <K2> even krm26 can ascend
14:48 <K2> :P
14:48 <krm26> and k2 only had to hold my hand for like 3 months
14:49 <mobileuser> and krm26 doesn't even know what a tin opener does, so there
14:49 <K2> thanks. beatles song in my head
14:49 <malor> My daughter just found a literal stock pile of prescription pain killers while cleaning some stuff for my wife (her mom) today.  Whenever I have any doctor stuff that involves a lot of pain they give me pain killers that I never take, so I have 4 or 5 pretty full bottles :). I was planning to use those to num the pain enough to play hackem :)
14:49 <K2> omg lol
14:50 <K2> stay away from the opiates
14:50 <malor> I will play Evil soonish ;)
14:50 <krm26> i too have a stash of 20 year old oxy. hate taking it, hate flushing it
14:50 <K2> thc gummies are your friend
14:50 <bhaak> dnethack being Tier 3 only makes sense if you are spoiled to death
14:50 <bhaak> you just die otherwise
14:50 <krm26> what is your favorite playstyle malor? bashing stuff, magic?
14:50 <bhaak> or maybe can't even win at all
14:50 <krm26> ^
14:50 <krm26> much more wiki reliant than evil
14:51 <K2> bhaak that's basically true of nethack and all the variants
14:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 469 points, T:3230, killed by a system shock
14:51 <K2> once you learn the ins and outs, good to go
14:51 <malor> Yeah, I never take pain killers basically ever.  The only time I ever did was when the pain was so severe that I could not sleep, so I took a pain killer to be able to sleep :). But during the day when the pain was immense I just dealt with it.  I had tears rolling down my eyes while I worked (or played nethack) for a couple weeks.  I miss those days :)
14:51 <K2> ugh
14:52 <K2> thc/cbd combo has been a godsend for my lower back issues
14:52 <bhaak> K2: only to a degree. in theory, there is all the info you need in game. the oracle gives you enough hints, the quest leader gives you anything else. MC is the most obscure game mechanism but you can survive by not knowing it.
14:52 <k3ut0i> malor: Miss those days in pain?! you are a masochist.. evilhack is very good for you
14:52 <malor> krm26 - I turn every game into bashing + face tanking generally :). I ENJOY magic and stuff like that but every game you can just go into auto-pilot and face tank basically, so I generally do.
14:52 <mobileuser> evilhack feels like supercharged vanilla, while dnh feels like a different game
14:53 <k3ut0i> I'm playing binder, and this feels like a whole different game altogther.
14:53 <K2> mobileuser nice analogy
14:53 <mobileuser> many people are saying this :-P
14:53 <xdminsy> Lol masochist should play drow convict :P
14:53 <malor> I haven't had any cronic pain issue.  If I did I would re-think my philosophy on pain.  Thank God, all of my pain has been temporary.  If I had some permanent pain I would medicate that.  But the temporary pain *I believe* is necessary so you don't re-injure yourself and muting it is bad.
14:53 <K2> dnethack and gnollhack have the farthest drift away from vanilla nethack ino
14:54 <mobileuser> good point malor
14:54 <malor> k3ut0i - but see *pain* isn't the same as *death*.  In evilhack my poor malor avatar would be subjected to DEATH over and over :). I like to send my little avatars on to demigod hood at least 20% of the time :)
14:55 <K2> oh well then try draugr
14:55 <K2> you get 1-3 revives per game
14:55 <K2> you ARE the zombie
14:55 <krm26> in that case malor strongly recommend centaur valkyrie as your first evilhack ascension
14:55 <malor> and Notdnethack extends that drift a little bit.
14:55 <xdminsy> mobileuser can do that and you can too malor.
14:56 <K2> ok all this talk makes me wanna play again
14:56 <malor> Speaking of fun fact -> the VERY BEST role in all of nethack-dom is "Illithanachronounbinder" in ndnh/nndnh.
14:56 <K2> lets see where we're at with this drow wizard
14:56 <krm26> btw k2 i hate to say it but as i'm nearing the end of this draugr i think it might be a little too good as a race :-)
14:56 <K2> lol malor why?
14:56 <malor> I will definitely be going Centaur and either Valk or Knight.
14:56 <krm26> centaur knight is hysterical
14:56 <K2> krm26 yeah we recognizaed that early on, hence some of the last minute nerfs
14:56 <K2> which were planned
14:57 <krm26> are there more incoming nerfs i'm not seeing?
14:57 <k3ut0i> malor: isn't that the role where you can't advance unless you bind and kill the spirit? Could never make sense of it.
14:57 <K2> there are more tweaks to draugr coming
14:57 <krm26> because i have a suggestion
14:57 <K2> but not until after june
14:57 <krm26> an awful suggestion
14:57 <krm26> as in a smop suggestion
14:57 <K2> hah
14:57 <malor> Are draugr "full speed"?  What is the NEGATIVE they have to endure?  It sounds like they might be vulnerable to fire?  Can you ever get to "immunity to fire" or are you maxed at "half damage from fire"?
14:57 <krm26> which is to make draugr a moloch-worshipping race
14:58 <mobileuser> speed: same as giant and tortle
14:58 <K2> hmm no
14:58 <K2> that would take away from infidel
14:58 <mobileuser> vulnerable to fire: use an external source
14:58 <K2> and yeah it'd be a massive SMOP
14:58 <krm26> not starting with the idol
14:58 <krm26> just basically denying them altars
14:58 <K2> see https://www.hardfought.org/etherpad/p/EvilHack#L51 to #L58
14:58 <malor> Illithanachronounbinder has a ton of special creatures to face and mini-challenges.  It has the most "stuff to do" of any other way to play.  It's just very interesting almost the whole time.  And it isn't super-tough, so it is just an enjoyable run.
14:59 <K2> cool
14:59 <malor> k3u0i -> correct, you MUST kill one spirit every level to advance in levels :)
14:59 <krm26> killing nurse dancing for draugr would be good
14:59 <malor> so they are slow, that's bad.
14:59 <K2> draugr and food
15:00 <K2> they cant eat just anything
15:00 <K2> same rules as if poly'd into a ghoul
15:00 <mobileuser> krm26 there are a number of things that are difficult for draugr early game, but you are a top player so you don't notice it as much
15:00 <krm26> could also make all cloth/leather on a draugr rot every few hundred turns if not fooproofed
15:00 <K2> non veggy corpses and eggs
15:00 <xdminsy> I dislike those races with some drawbacks so often i'd rather play human :D
15:00 <krm26> to make you properly funereal
15:00 <krm26> xdminsy, giant and centaur more than make up for any drawbacks, they are super-fun
15:01 <malor> I love the idea of force-rotting equipment. I've added that to my notes for SlashDNH :)
15:01 <krm26> tortle is for the challenge
15:01 <K2> but honestly, we already have a couple difficult races to play (giant, tortle), draugr doesnt have to be just as hard does it?
15:01 <K2> it definitely has some challenges
15:01 <K2> cant cast spells, ever
15:01 <K2> thats a big one
15:01 <krm26> no, i dont think draugr needs to be the toughest, but its (very reasonable) resists trivialize a lot of important game difficulty mechanics
15:01 <krm26> not casting spells is a big deal, that is nice
15:01 <xdminsy> Ah yes the centaurs seem no big differnece than human.
15:02 <krm26> i just think they need one or two more spears stuck in em
15:02 <K2> they cant use "oLS either
15:02 <krm26> i admit i never use "oLS
15:02 <k3ut0i> no spells, few pets, no shops, hostile town, no "oLS. seems tough enough.
15:02 <malor> In dnh there are SEVERAL different "life saving" pieces of equipment that can be found.
15:03 <krm26> now if they never recovered health unless they were lying in a grave :-)
15:03 <K2> hah
15:03 <malor> The Amulet and the "helm of undeath" are the only ones you can wish for but you can find any piece of armor with the "life saving" Oprop and the "ring of wishing" in the castle is also an amulet of life saving where each charge on the ring is a life-save (1 to 3 wishes fyi).
15:04 <malor> I have a race for SlashDNH that is a "plant" and it can't regenerate without being "planted" :)
15:04 <krm26> maybe draugr shouldnt even get extrinsic telepathy
15:04 <krm26> or extrinsic fire resistance
15:04 <K2> i was leaning towards that
15:04 <mobileuser> booo
15:04 <K2> ext esp
15:05 <K2> but it was a lot more difficult to do
15:05 <k3ut0i> extrinsic fire should be allowed. esp may be not.
15:05 <K2> but yeah extrinsic is an external source
15:05 <K2> should be allowed
15:05 <malor> why shouldn't they get ESP?  I get the fire thing, but is it just because everyone thinks zomies are dumb?
15:05 <k3ut0i> no brains
15:05 <K2> malor technically zombies are mindless
15:06 <K2> but the player cant be totally mindless
15:06 <K2> so took some creative license
15:06 <malor> obviously they have some form of brain when you are controlling them.  So they have *something*
15:06 <krm26> that is implying that *i* have a brain
15:06 <krm26> you're reaching
15:06 <K2> lol
15:06 <malor> by *you* I meant mostly "mobileuser" :)
15:06 <K2> krm26 is the scarecrow from the wizard of oz
15:07 <k3ut0i> physical brain creates ESP. spirit that is bound to the bones... drives the player forward... :)
15:07 <malor> jk, I know you have a ton of Evil ascensions.  If you did that by "instinct" that is even more amazing :)
15:07 <K2> draugr was made on a whim fyi
15:07 <K2> had no intentions of adding another race after drow
15:08 <krm26> OH got it. k2, draugr cant recover health unless wearing a mummy wrapping
15:08 <K2> but they arent mummies
15:08 <krm26> it is like a grave shroud
15:08 <K2> here's an idea, from ad&d
15:08 <K2> healing spells/potions would actually do damage to the undead
15:08 <krm26> it is like taking an equipment slot away, a pretty good nerf
15:08 <krm26> would monsters throw healing potions at you :-)
15:09 <krm26> drink unholy water to heal?
15:09 <K2> so evil priests and necromancers had spells like 'cause light wounds' which would actually heal their undead pets
15:09 <K2> so imagine this - draugr cant benefit from healing potions (spells are moot, cuz they cant cast)
15:09 <k3ut0i> I keep imagining Draugr as skeleton instead of zombie. probably due to this. https://units.wesnoth.org/1.16/mainline/en_US/Draug.html
15:10 <K2> k3ut0i heh cool
15:10 <xdminsy> Lol then what about death magic increase draugr max hp:)
15:10 <krm26> now THAT would be a huge increase in difficulty, k2
15:10 <K2> xdminsy yes
15:10 <K2> wands of death zapped at undead already heal them
15:10 <krm26> i think that would jump them to the most difficult race ahead of tortles
15:10 <K2> krm26: or, only cused potions of healing work
15:11 <K2> *cursed
15:11 <K2> or, only unholy water can heal
15:11 <K2> something
15:11 <krm26> what does cursed full healing do? never checked
15:11 <xdminsy> heh dunno.
15:11 <mobileuser> sounds like they would need to do a lot of nurse dancing
15:11 <K2> to balance that out, would give them hungerless regen at higher exp level
15:11 <krm26> no nurse dancing for draugr
15:12 <krm26> no nurse dancing, only cursed healing potions (for the reduced effect too) sounds like a good idea
15:12 <xdminsy> Then how to increase max hp.
15:12 <K2> no nurse dancing for draugr is being considered
15:12 <mobileuser> me and my big mouth
15:12 <krm26> i'm assuming cursed full healing does like half health returned maybe?
15:12 <krm26> no increase to max hp?
15:12 <K2> cursed full healing heals you back to 100% you just dont get the 8 point boost
15:12 <krm26> not being able to nurse or alchemy your max hp up would be a very nice challenge addition
15:12 <mobileuser> I suggest alternate strat, bang, nerf hamer
15:12 <k3ut0i> kill-healing could be another idea. Only regenerates for a short while after the a kill.
15:13 <K2> but see this would have to apply to all undead
15:13 <krm26> thats what you get for not giving me the full tin opener scoop mobileuser!
15:13 <K2> not just draugr
15:13 <mobileuser> but I already did krm26 :-)
15:13 <krm26> "tin opener scoop"
15:13 <mobileuser> ah lol
15:14 <K2> see this? https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/commit/d39089332287bd18df26de8e98d9c9176ffdfbf4
15:14 <K2> i wonder if it already does this for draugr
15:14 <K2> if not, it will 
15:14 <mobileuser> I don't think so
15:14 <K2> gotta have that player/monster symmetry
15:15 <krm26> but wands of death weigh so much less than full healing! unfair!
15:15 <k3ut0i> Does this apply to player polymorphed into undead, a Lich perhaps?
15:15 <K2> mobileuser correct it doesnt do that for draugr
15:15 <krm26> new change incoming: wands weigh 20 aum per charge
15:15 <K2> its just harmless
15:15 <krm26> (that'll make you happy rebatela :-)
15:16 <K2> same if poly'd into undead
15:16 <krm26> oh my god that would be so funny, to have magical charges weigh like 2 aum apiece or something...
15:16 <krm26> heavy magic
15:16 <bouquet> very diskworld, krm26
15:16 <k3ut0i> e=mc^2
15:17 <bouquet> "you're blinded by the octarine flash"
15:17 <mobileuser> your wand briefly glows. you can hardly move under the strain!
15:17 <krm26> k2, another approach would be to have some penalties to scroll reading when your int is like below 8
15:18 <krm26> chance of fing up the reading
15:18 <K2> that would need to be true across the board
15:18 <krm26> yeah
15:18 <K2> regardless of race/role
15:18 <krm26> agreed
15:18 <mobileuser> this is so depressing, I'm going to do some dishes to cheers me up :-P
15:18 <k3ut0i> You could make it slow. more turns to read.
15:18 <krm26> that is why i didn't say below 12 even tho i wanted to so draugr couldnt use a helm of brilliance to get out of it
15:19 <krm26> anyway, while im running my mouth about making draugr a bit more difficult i'm going to fall to my death at vlads
15:19 <K2> mobileuser lol
15:20 <K2> hey for what its worth, the healing potions/spells harming undead has kinda been on my radar for awhile
15:20 <K2> its very much an ad&d thing
15:20 <K2> not going to nerf draugr into oblivion, it still needs to be fun to play
15:21 <K2> so dont worry
15:21 <K2> everything we're discussing is not set in stone
15:22 <krm26> you know...draugr should probably be able to remove the hand of vecna if they keep their old hand :-)
15:24 <K2> hah
15:25 <rebatela> krm26: what will make me happy? 'i'm not following
15:26 <rebatela> i guess it's something you don't do that I do? 
15:26 <rld> <@malorpower> You don’t have to make monsters and players the same *if* making them different makes the game better.
15:26 <rld> <@malorpower> Always “game better” trumps everything!
15:27 <rebatela> wut?
15:29 -!- rebatela has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:29 <K2> draugr being able to use a wand of death to full heal itself is better yeah? :)
15:31 <krm26> i was making some awful suggestions for increasing game difficulty rebatela :-)  like making wand weight increase with charges
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15:33 <krm26> popped out just in time to miss my response rebatela!
15:33 <krm26> " i was making some awful suggestions for increasing game difficulty rebatela :-)  like making wand weight increase with charges"
15:33 <rebatela> oh
15:34 <rebatela> aren't all your suggestions lauded and implemented ?
15:35 <rebatela> that seems like a cool one
15:35 <rebatela> were you being sarcastic?
15:36 <krm26> i was being sarcastic
15:36 <rebatela> so like a secret door wand that is always like 0:15 ways more ? 
15:36 <krm26> it was in relation to draugr being healed by wands of death instead of healing potions
15:36 <rebatela> or did you mean like the first number?
15:36 <krm26> so i was complaining that wands are lighter than potions
15:36 <krm26> so to rectify that, make every magical charge weigh 5 aum or something :-)
15:37 <krm26> so a wand of death with 7 charges would weigh 42 aum or whatever (35+7)
15:38 <xdminsy> Noooooooo I'm such a pack rat that always have 50+ wands in my bag.
15:38 <krm26> you know what i HONESTLY want? i want a portable hole, a bag that you can put stuff in and never has anything inside. i would put all my bullwhips there
15:38 <krm26> and maybe zombie corpses
15:38 <krm26> just let me clean up the dungeon!
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15:39 <xdminsy> Real black hole.
15:39 <xdminsy> I think you pick it and you are abosorbed into it :P
15:39 <xdminsy> when you open it.
15:39 <krm26> k2, if you have a pet antimatter vortex, and loot it and give it something, it should annihilate the loot instead of dropping it
15:39 <xdminsy> It automatically engulf the whole dungeon.
15:40 <krm26> https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Portable%20Hole#content
15:40 <xdminsy> Cool :D
15:42 <krm26> ugh repairing armor as a draugr is a right pain
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15:44 <rebatela> if someone were to only go by your posts on here, they would never in a million years guess you are one of the best players
15:46 <krm26> Do I contradict myself? 
15:46 <krm26> Very well then I contradict myself,
15:46 <krm26>  (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
15:46 <rebatela> is draugr supposed to be a super easy role? like, you aren't playing it BECASUE it's suppose to be challenging? maybe I'm confused 
15:46 <krm26> although you may have just made k2 choke to death by saying im in a "best players" category :-)
15:47 <krm26> draugr is brand new, but IMO it is perhaps slightly more difficult than human in early game, maybe, and significantly better than human in late game
15:47 <rebatela> it's liek playing convict and complaining you can't ascend because of this damned striped shirt you start with
15:47 <rebatela> yet you ascend
15:47 <krm26> no, tortle is the only race that is a "challenge" race i would say
15:47 <krm26> and of course everything doesnt have to be the same difficulty
15:48 <mobileuser> even tortle has some nice advantages that balance it
15:48 <krm26> it has some advantages, but i wouldnt say they "balance it" :-)
15:48 <krm26> i think tortle of any role is a bit more difficult than any other race of that role
15:48 <mobileuser> well, since I gained more experience with them of late...
15:48 <krm26> it is the extreme nudity
15:49 <krm26> although bracers will make them slightly less challenging
15:49 <rld> <@loggers_viii> I think tortle is a lot of fun but they are bad
15:49 <mobileuser> bad ass!
15:49 <rld> <@loggers_viii> the swimming is surprisingly awesome sometimes
15:50 <mobileuser> I loved medusa and the plane of water :-)
15:50 <rld> <@loggers_viii> maybe they will become more desirable to play when that underwater branch gets added
15:50 <rld> <@loggers_viii> I think there should be a spell to create a pool of water
15:51 <mobileuser> heh, that's a feared monster spell in slashem/hackem
15:51 <krm26> for serious difficulty we should have a Narnia talking mouse race a la Reepicheep
15:51 <rld> <@loggers_viii> also tortles should be faster in water
15:51 <krm26> strength 6!
15:52 <krm26> let the ilithids win some arm wrestling contests
15:53 <krm26> so mobileuser, tinklebear was nice enough to provide me with a 0:0 wow, so i'm gonna correct my bracer mistake
15:53 <mobileuser> heheh
15:53 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide bracers of fire resistance", on T:95002 (1 day, 7:35:49)
15:54 <krm26> man ive got every single +3 i wished for this game
15:54 <krm26> that gives me -82 ac for vlad
15:54 <mobileuser> but now you need a different hat
15:54 <krm26> true!
15:54 <mobileuser> toque
15:54 <krm26> but what
15:55 <krm26> i could do a helm of speed and change my boots to jumping to eat even more wishes
15:55 <mobileuser> no dragonhide helm of speed anymore :-(
15:55 <krm26> i know, but no spells, so mithril is fine
15:55 <mobileuser> bone!
15:55 <mobileuser> think of the weight
15:56 <krm26> that is on point but it is so hard to repair armor as a draugr
15:56 <mobileuser> oh, cursed scrolls of confuse monster
15:56 <krm26> i guess, in a way, having fooproofable materials is better
15:56 <mobileuser> much lighter than potions
15:57 <rld> <@loggers_viii> yeah it’s one extra layer monsters have to go through before your armor gets totally destroyed
15:58 <rld> <@loggers_viii> so you get a little more value out of using enchant armor scrolls to repair if you use non-intrinsically fooproofed stuff
15:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) killed Gollum, on T:9679 (3:19:37)
15:58 <mobileuser> back to looting boxes on Vecna 1...
15:58 <rld> <@loggers_viii> I started skipping the loot on vecna 1 and I think it made me a happier person
15:58 <krm26> i'll wait for you. i just have vlad and then the tower
16:03 <xdminsy> What about waiting for me ;D, I'm at Gollum's Cave lol.
16:03 <rebatela> so k2: have the rules changed so that i can never wear purity gloves again after killing master po?
16:03 <rebatela> it used to just take a zillion sacrificies
16:03 <rebatela> i get clovers again 
16:03 <xdminsy> I met a very strong dwarf lord that I miss all attack, and my cauchemar died too..
16:03 <krm26> no rebatela, just keep at it
16:04 <rebatela> well, that's how it used to be...
16:04 <rebatela> but i'm getting clovers and can pray. but ok thanks
16:04 <krm26> right, but you need to get your alignment record back up
16:04 <rebatela> i don't mind putting in the work
16:04 <krm26> so more sacrifices
16:04 <rebatela> word
16:04 <rebatela> thanks
16:04 <K2> its not how it used to be
16:04 <K2> its always been tied to your alignment record
16:05 <xdminsy> Purity only counts current record?
16:05 <K2> (not to be confused with align abuse record)
16:05 <rebatela> oh i got it
16:05 <K2> yeah
16:05 <rebatela> all set. thanks
16:06 <xdminsy> I'm somewhat regret to play a chaotic knight :(
16:07 <xdminsy> I want purity, should I later convert to lawful?
16:07 <krm26> you can use purity as chaotic
16:08 <rebatela> or neutral (which i am)
16:08 <krm26> just dont get the anti-grazzzzzt mojo
16:08 <rebatela> and there's actually a neutral altar IN the knight quest (at least in vanilla)
16:08 <krm26> do they still sometimes slip off chaotic hands? ive never experienced that myself
16:08 <rebatela> can lawful wish for grayswandir?
16:08 <xdminsy> I heard that they have a 1/1000 chance to break every turn.
16:08 <rebatela> err 
16:09 <rebatela> i mean can chaotic ?
16:09 <rebatela> wish for grayswandir?
16:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) had a staff of healing entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:19535 (4:53:58)
16:09 <xdminsy> I think wishing for grayswandir is viable in vanilla.
16:09 <xdminsy> Not sure in evilhack, I think yes.
16:09 <krm26> yes grayswandir is not intelligent, anyone can wish for it
16:10 <rebatela> oh ok
16:10 <rebatela> then yeah i don't see why chaotic wouldn't be able to make purity gloves
16:12 <K2> if you wear the GoPur as a chaotic, there's a 1/2000 chance they will slip off of your hands each turn
16:13 <K2> if unaligned (infidel) you cant even put them on
16:13 <xdminsy> Okay only slip off, I believe it would just disappear for a long time lol.
16:13 <xdminsy> Maybe I could try that, I could use hooa later I think.
16:14 <rebatela> dammit i forgot about Vlad! 
16:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) destroyed Vlad the Impaler, on T:95678 (1 day, 7:56:00)
16:14 <rebatela> he's all that's left 
16:14 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) acquired the Candelabrum of Invocation, on T:95680 (1 day, 7:56:03)
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16:20 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) had a dark elven dagger entrusted to him by Lolth, on T:20213 (5:04:47)
16:20 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) averted death (killed by Mr. Angmagssalik; the shopkeeper), on T:11073 (3:41:33)
16:20 <xdminsy> Oooops I'm sleep to death, thankfully the amulet.
16:21 <Teegra> Does a bugle work the same as a leather drum or tooled horn in terms of scaring all monsters, or is any one better than the other?  I know bugles can ready/alert soldiers, however.
16:21 <krm26> works the same except for soldier alert
16:22 <rebatela> damn forgot all about vecna branch too... lotsa loot in that graveyard 
16:24 <Teegra> Gotta eke out every lb./aum with an illithid. 25 aum vs. 10 aum.
16:26 <mobileuser> just remember you can't scare mindless monsters like air elementals with it Teegra
16:26 <mobileuser> but still very useful to have (giant eels, salamanders...)
16:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) was chosen to take lives for the Glory of Lolth, on T:21027 (5:16:21)
16:32 <K2> wasnt trying to get crowned but i'll take it
16:35 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] mobileuser (Bar Dra Mal Cha) destroyed Kas, on T:45330 (23:53:55)
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16:39 <mobileuser> 2 hostile alhoons
16:42 <mobileuser> back to stash to prepare my shiny new 2-handed sword...
16:48 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 555 points, T:2301, killed by a baby owlbear
16:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Ixoth, on T:21907 (12:57:58)
16:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:21909 (12:58:25)
16:59 <krm26> argh looks like i need to ttyrec mobileuser -- my bracers are missing :-P
16:59 <krm26> think i'll stop for now, how frustrating
17:03 <mobileuser> huh?
17:04 <krm26> my dragonhide bracers! where did they go? who knows. some bearded axe mighta stolen them somewhere
17:04 <krm26> unless they are still "fragile" and a single deterioration spell can take em out
17:04 <krm26> only the ttyrec will know
17:05 <mobileuser> ah... bearded axe very likely
17:05 <mobileuser> somehow I can't imagine bracers getting hooked by an axe K2?
17:05 <mobileuser> how would that work
17:07 <K2> they shouldnt
17:07 <K2> lets see
17:08 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 553 points, T:2445, zombified by a dwarf zombie, while frozen by a monster's gaze
17:09 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring an amulet of magic resistance, on T:14705 (4:30:45)
17:09 <K2> The mountain dwarf swings her axe towards your offhand!  The axe is unable to hook onto the pair of leather bracers.
17:10 <K2> yeah bracers are off limits
17:12 <K2> oh wait
17:12 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:7829 (1:30:58)
17:12 <K2> that didnt work because leather falls under is_flimsy i bet
17:13 <mobileuser> and dragonhide?
17:13 <K2> shouldnt even be getting the 'failed to hook onto' msg
17:13 <K2> looking at the code, i think it may have happened to krm26
17:13 <K2> lemme verify
17:14 <K2> The mountain dwarf swings his axe towards your offhand!  The axe hooks onto the pair of steel bracers!  The mountain dwarf pulls the pair of steel bracers from your offhand!
17:15 <K2> oopsies
17:15 <K2> kinda surprised this hasnt happened sooner with dark elven bracers
17:15 <K2> or maybe it has and no one noticed
17:15 <K2> oh well. easy fix
17:16 <K2> brb
17:19 <krm26> i'll download the ttyrec and see if i can find the damn thing
17:20 <krm26> wut! no ttyrecs in my au.hardfought.org userdata directory
17:20 <krm26> nooooooo
17:21 <krm26> are the ttyrecs somewhere weird for au k2?
17:25 <mobileuser> you may have to wait a bit krm26
17:26 <mobileuser> they get copied over
17:27 <mobileuser> there is a Recent/Unarchived ttyrecs bit
17:28 <mobileuser> did you use https://www.hardfought.org/nethack/ttyrecs/evilhack-au/ and then type your username?
17:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 422 points, T:1159, killed by a large mimic, while reading a book
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17:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:17618 (5:07:14)
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17:57 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] xdminsy (Kni Hum Fem Cha) became literate by reading a book, on T:18487 (5:19:06)
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18:30 <sloppyfirsts> it really is interesting. About a week and half ago I was thinking how one could go about ascending EvilHack, let alone vanilla, without using melee of any sort.
18:30 <sloppyfirsts> I decided to try an illithid.  have gotten pretty far without hitting anything with bare fist or weapon — and am still alive. it seems about the only option.
18:31 <sloppyfirsts> now, comes the new wizard setup in Evil. it really is interesting.
18:32 <sloppyfirsts> with a few tweeks I think it could be great fun.
18:34 <sloppyfirsts> one thing is knowing what is loaded in (on?) your fists.  maybe when typing ')' it says not only 'You are empty clawed.' but also says 'You are empty clawed, glowing brightly with electrical energy.'  Or, 'You are empty clawed, glowing dimly with flame energy.'
18:35 <sloppyfirsts> or, alternatively have it listed in inventory or ctrl-x.
18:51 <K2> that's a cool idea sloppyfirsts
18:51 <K2> if you do xtril-x (or regular enlightenment in game) you do get feedback
18:52 <K2> for burning hands it's 'You are able to burn monsters bare-handed.'
18:55 <sloppyfirsts> No seeing it in ctrl-x. Shoicking grasp does not show it.
18:55 <sloppyfirsts> And I am fairly certain i looked with burning hands, too.
18:56 <K2> it does in wizmode
18:57 <K2> you'd have to use enlightenment
18:57 <K2> in a regular game
18:59 <sloppyfirsts> seems odd it would be a hidden detail. You should be able simply see how bright they are glowing.
19:00 <sloppyfirsts> what happens when you cast burning hands with pre-loaded shocking hands?  dual damage to the non-resistance?
19:02 <K2> try it and see
19:08 <sloppyfirsts> also new spell idea: freezing girlfriend hands.
19:08 <sloppyfirsts> (already knew the answer to my question.)
19:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:14717 (1:32:21)
19:16 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) acquired the luckstone from Mines' End, on T:13273 (3:29:34)
19:20 <K2> hand of vecna = freezing gf hands
19:35 <sloppyfirsts> but that is not a spell?
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19:41 <K2> he didnt get it
19:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] splungetoo (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) killed Aphrodite, on T:19924 (2:11:37)
20:05 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 pushed 1 commit to master [+0/-0/±3] https://github.com/k21971/EvilHack/compare/98cdc0679cfd...25e9eb05bdbb
20:05 <botifico> [EvilHack] k21971 25e9eb0 - Fix: bracers should not be a suitable target when applying a dwarvish bearded axe towards the player or a monster.
20:07 <K2> ^ live
20:07 <K2> if playing, save/reload for the fix to kick in
20:08 <krm26> yay
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20:12 <krm26> damn, i wonder if something picked up my snatched dragonhide bracers and then i annihilated them
20:13 <krm26> hah! got em
20:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] ceb (Val Dwa Fem Law), 1260 points, T:3202, poisoned by a rotted orc corpse
20:51 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) destroyed Vecna, on T:52866 (16:29:13)
20:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) genocided alhoons, on T:52874 (16:29:48)
20:52 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] bouquet (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) genocided arch-liches, on T:52875 (16:29:56)
20:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 124 points, T:1511, killed by a kobold, while sleeping
20:58 <Hecubus> [hdf-eu] [evil] ceb (Val Dwa Fem Neu), 1078 points, T:2143, killed by the Goblin King
21:08 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] post163 (Wiz Gno Mal Cha), 0 points, T:1, killed by a bolt of cold
21:13 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 251 points, T:1302, killed by a jackal
21:15 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Fem Law) killed Medusa, on T:26438 (17:13:07)
21:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) made her first artifact wish - "blessed fixed greased master key of thievery", on T:97560 (1 day, 9:49:22)
21:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed mithril magic harp", on T:97564 (1 day, 9:53:15)
21:37 <K2> krm26 yay
21:38 <krm26> time to tame the pegasus so at least ill have it for the first wizard
21:38 <krm26> oh k2 -- do bracers screw priest/wizard spellcasting?
21:39 <krm26> and do bracers interact with shield skill at all?
21:39 <K2> a bit but not like a full shield
21:39 <K2> and there's no bashing with them
21:40 <K2> bracers behave like a small shield as far as spellcasting goes
21:41 <krm26> sigh, nevermind. cant tame the pegasus of course
21:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased fixed +3 dragonhide t-shirt of esp", on T:97805 (1 day, 10:16:46)
21:49 <Umbire> Not with food
21:50 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) wished for "blessed greased +3 dragonhide cloak of protection", on T:97822 (1 day, 10:17:59)
21:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) genocided two random monsters from class L, on T:97850 (1 day, 10:23:11)
21:55 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) rejected atheism with a prayer, on T:3066 (0:42:10)
21:56 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 1574 points, T:3077, killed by a giant mosquito
22:07 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) entered the Wizard of Yendor's lair, on T:98157 (1 day, 10:34:56)
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22:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed the invisible Wizard of Yendor, on T:98261 (1 day, 10:38:46)
22:11 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) acquired the Book of the Dead, on T:98262 (1 day, 10:38:48)
22:17 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) performed the invocation, on T:98365 (1 day, 10:45:13)
22:20 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) completed Sokoban, acquiring a copper helm of speed, on T:16360 (2:22:19)
22:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed the elven high priestess of Moloch, on T:98518 (1 day, 10:50:29)
22:22 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) acquired the Amulet of Yendor, on T:98520 (1 day, 10:50:35)
22:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed Lucifer, on T:98586 (1 day, 10:54:54)
22:27 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) entered Purgatory, on T:98592 (1 day, 10:55:36)
22:30 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law) performed his first genocide (minotaurs), on T:3006 (0:33:58)
22:31 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha) killed Saint Michael, on T:98723 (1 day, 10:59:40)
22:32 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] krm26 (Bar Dra Fem Cha), 2596696 points, T:98728, incinerated by long sword (with the Amulet), while attempting to cheat Death
22:32 <krm26> ouch, instagibbed by sunsword
22:32 <krm26> ah well! that's my junethack folks
22:32 <Loggers_VIII> D:
22:33 <Loggers_VIII> RIP
22:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) killed the invisible Thoth Amon, on T:17739 (2:41:18)
22:41 <Loggers_VIII> I was real confident about that until he cast acid blast
22:41 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:17740 (2:41:40)
22:41 <Loggers_VIII> well, now I have the ring of p'hul which is epic
22:43 <K2> krm26 :(
22:43 <K2> !lastgame
22:43 <Hecubus> K2: [hdf-us] https://www.hardfought.org/userdata/f/fubaz/evilhack/dumplog/1717809214.evil.html :: [hdf-eu] https://eu.hardfought.org/userdata/c/ceb/evilhack/dumplog/1717807785.evil.html :: [hdf-au] https://au.hardfought.org/userdata/k/krm26/evilhack/dumplog/1717517292.evil.html
22:43 <krm26> draugr bonus!
22:44 <K2> 'incinerated by long sword' I need to fix that
22:45 <krm26> i guess i blew my chance at a reanimation to boot
22:45 <krm26> or perhaps no chance with sunsword
22:45 <K2> yeah draugr cant revive if incinerated by sunsword/hotg
22:45 <K2> its one of the few ways they cant revive
22:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) refused to give up The Ring of P'hul to Pelias, on T:18927 (2:49:26)
22:49 <Loggers_VIII> later sucker
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23:02 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 2677 points, T:5053, killed by an ape, while frozen by a monster's gaze
23:03 <Hecubus> [hdf-au] [evil] Sorcerer (Wiz Ith Mal Cha) had Magicbane bestowed upon him by Anhur, on T:18280 (5:17:06)
23:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) killed the Dark One, on T:23688 (6:35:41)
23:06 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) acquired the Bell of Opening, on T:23688 (6:35:44)
23:21 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] k2 (Wiz Dro Mal Cha) completed his quest without incident, on T:24109 (6:50:30)
23:23 <Loggers_VIII> good two shoes
23:23 <Loggers_VIII> *goody
23:25 <K2> hah
23:25 <K2> yeah somehow i havent abused my alignment
23:25 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) killed Medusa, on T:20539 (3:20:55)
23:26 <Loggers_VIII> I always end up with gravely abused alignment and I can never remember how
23:28 <K2> gonna break here, gettin sleepy
23:28 <K2> gnite o/
23:30 <Loggers_VIII> night o/
23:34 <Umbire> yz k2
23:42 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) averted death (crushed to death by a collapsing drawbridge), on T:20928 (3:30:09)
23:43 -!- k3ut0i has joined #evilhack
23:44 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed the invisible Gollum, on T:5087 (1:07:41)
23:45 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Nightsorrow (Sam Hum Mal Law) killed the Goblin King, on T:5203 (1:08:50)
23:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] fubaz (Arc Hum Mal Law), 461 points, T:1466, killed by a large spider
23:47 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] Loggers (Bar Cen Mal Cha) wished for "2 blessed charging", on T:21157 (3:35:16)
23:48 -!- Loggers_VIII has quit [Quit: Client closed]
23:49 <Hecubus> [hdf-us] [evil] tinklebear (Kni Hum Mal Law) murdered Patience, his faithful warhorse, on T:28297 (19:40:37)